Viper 791 on manual car
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=45027
Printed Date: May 01, 2025 at 8:35 PM
Topic: Viper 791 on manual car
Posted By: TRDCamry
Subject: Viper 791 on manual car
Date Posted: December 12, 2004 at 1:02 PM
need help please... the alarm side of the alarm works good, but the only thing is that the remote start side doesnt work. i have a 85 toyota corolla with the clutch swith bypassed already. so in other words, i can start the car just like how an automatic can. well when i try to remote start it, the motor doesnt crank or turnover. i have grounded the netural saftey wire, and still nothing happens. any help would be greatly appreciated.
Replies:
Posted By: hagmanti
Date Posted: December 12, 2004 at 9:08 PM
Look, you're probably not going to appreciate this, but
Step Away From The Vehicle.
You're going to cause an accident w/ that thing, and you're going to be sued to kingdom come...
Having said that, you must have something hooked up incorrectly in your ignition harness: check to make sure that the pink wire is going to an ignition wire (put a DMM across it!), the orange to an accessory, green to the key side of a starter wire, and purple to motor side. (Especially check that last bit).
After check that, check your tach connection, and program tach.
If it still doesn't work, report back.
Let me say again-- this car is a recipe for disaster.
Me
Posted By: TRDCamry
Date Posted: December 12, 2004 at 10:19 PM
ok i checked the wires to the ignition and they seemed to be in the right place. as for the tach wire, we tapped that off to the wire behind the speedo and that didnt work, we then tapped it off the black wire to the igniter and still nothing happened. as for programing the tach, it works fine when programing but the motor still doenst seem to turn over.
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Posted By: mikynunu
Date Posted: December 12, 2004 at 11:27 PM
make sure the strter wire is connected right
purple: motor side
green: Key side
Posted By: hagmanti
Date Posted: December 13, 2004 at 12:36 AM
And, if you didn't hook up the tach wire, then I'm confused how it "works fine when programming".
I'm not trying to be a jerk-- I'm really not, but I truly believe that this car is going to hurt someone. If you don't hook up that neutral safety wire, all it takes is the gear shift being in gear one time when you're not around-- it doesn't even take you leaving it that way-- someone could bump your car in the parking lot, you go to remote start it, and all of a sudden your car, that you disabled all the safety features on, is running over a pregnant woman, and you're spending the rest of your life paying her medical bills.
Anyway, back to be basics-- check connections, make sure they're tight. Did you solder your wires? I'm guessing not, because you mention "tapping off"-- does that mean T-taps? Check those carefully, and consider replacing them w/ soldered connections. What procedure did you use for programming tach? How do you know it "works fine"?
Take care,
Me
Posted By: TRDCamry
Date Posted: December 13, 2004 at 9:42 AM
mikynunu-if i hooked it backwards, would the starter kill still work?? hagmanti-yes i know that installing remote start on a manual car could be very dangerous and im taking great care in preventing it while its in gear, but im just concerned that its not working properly as of now. for all the connections, i have soldered everything except the starter kill relay side. i have connected the tach wire to the negative side of the coil. to program it, i start the car, then push the valet switch and hold it, until the LED stays on constant, then turn off car. is that how you program it, cause thats what my fren said he does. once again, thanks to everyone who is trying to help me with this problem, i really appreciate it. much mahalos to everyone -------------
Posted By: hagmanti
Date Posted: December 13, 2004 at 10:00 AM
That makes me feel much better. :)
Starter kill would still work, remote start would not.
That's the correct procedure for programming tach. If you've gotten the LED to stay on constant like that, then you have a good source of tach, and probably don't need to try another...
Make sure about the starter wires-- the purple side has to face the motor...
Me
Posted By: gus1
Date Posted: December 13, 2004 at 10:04 AM
Then, to ensure the safety of all around you, head to your local Viper dealer, and buy a 668M Manual Transmission Interface. This will enable you to use the remote start feature properly without endangering anyone. They're cheap, they work.
Gus
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Wherever I go, that is where I end up......
Posted By: ^clumsy^
Date Posted: December 15, 2004 at 6:26 PM
Where can I find the 668M Manual Transmission Interface at? I should be getting this alarm soon and would like to use the remote start feature, i'm aware of the problems. It looks like im not going to be able to get a shop to install the remote start feature for me so I'm going to attempt to do it myself. How hard will this be to do on a scale of 1 through 10?
Posted By: adam.l.walker
Date Posted: December 15, 2004 at 6:47 PM
Speaking of the purple wire to starter side, green wire to key side... how do you know which is which? According to the wiring diagram for my truck, I only have one starter wire, which was under the steering column. It, along with all the other ignition and accessory wires go into the same little connector box under the steering column, but I can't see where they come out or what wire would control "key side" to tap into. Anybody have any advice? My vehicle is a 1998 Ford F-150 w/out anti-theft (pats or whatever) and no transponder key. Thanks.
Posted By: TheSaint421
Date Posted: December 15, 2004 at 7:13 PM
gus1]T wrote:
en, to ensure the safety of all around you, head to your local Viper dealer, and buy a 668M Manual Transmission Interface. This will enable you to use the remote start feature properly without endangering anyone. They're cheap, they work.
Gus
What exactly does it do? and how does it make it safer to use on a manual tranny? I have RS on my car, and yes I do have to leave it out of gear, but I have the E-Brake on when the car is off. there is no switch on a manual transmission to tell the car wheather or not it's in gear or anything like that, so what could this module possibly do to make it safe to install a RS on a mnnual transmission. and by the way unless you have your Rs to crank on your engine for 6-8 seconds, then as long as your E-Brake is on, and the wheels locked, the RS won't move the car more and maybe 3-4 inches, at least when I tested mine thats about as far asit moved.... The Saint
Posted By: TRDCamry
Date Posted: December 16, 2004 at 10:02 AM
hagmanti wrote:
That makes me feel much better. :)
Starter kill would still work, remote start would not.
That's the correct procedure for programming tach. If you've gotten the LED to stay on constant like that, then you have a good source of tach, and probably don't need to try another...
Make sure about the starter wires-- the purple side has to face the motor...
Me
lets say if the wires are backwards, would that be a reason why the motor doesnt crank or turnover?? cause nothing happens when i push the (*) on the remote. it doesnt beep or anything. and where could i get that optional relay for the manual trans??? i have tried to find it on the viper site but couldnt find it. well ill try and check the wires and see if the starter wires are correct. thanks again to all the people who is trying to help me out with my problem.
Posted By: kgerry
Date Posted: December 16, 2004 at 11:04 AM
the 688M has to see the vehicle running and the park brake on, you have to exit the vehicle (it looks for a signal from the drivers door) and then shut down the unit... if the door is opened again it goes out of ready mode.... obviously you couldn't exit the vehicle properly if the car is running and in gear..... ------------- Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer
Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979
Posted By: hagmanti
Date Posted: December 16, 2004 at 11:19 AM
TRDCamry-- Do you have hood pin hooked up? Are you sure that it's getting depressed when the hood is down?
TheSaint241-- did you test on an incline? Did you test when your e-brake had failed? Did you test when you'd forgotten to set your e-brake? Did you test when you had set it, but someone else had messed w/ it? Did it still move only 3-4 inches in all those situations? Did you test when the engine was cold (and requires longer cranking) and the car near a patch of ice (so once started, wouldn't stop)?
Can you guarantee that you'll never park a foot away from another car, and have someone squeeze between the cars? Can you guarantee that no one will ever park a foot away from yours?
If you can answer yes to all those questions, then you won't have a problem w/ lawsuits. Otherwise, go to the trouble of ensuring your car can not start in gear.
Just my $.02,
Me
Posted By: riceman
Date Posted: December 16, 2004 at 12:01 PM
Trdcamry it sounds like you have a problem with the hoodpin make sure the pin is not reciving ground or that you didnt leave the hood open while testing.I've done it many times now I always forget . And as for having a RS in a manual I've had mines for four yrs with no problems. Let me ask you is this your car? Do you have the netural safety hooked up to your e-brake? If yes to both questions you should be fine just be extra cautious especially when you let someone else drives your car because that person is less cautious then you and dont RS after someone has used your car because they might of lefted it in gear. Goodluck and be responsible.
Posted By: gus1
Date Posted: December 16, 2004 at 3:49 PM
Thanks kevin..... You beat me to it! Every manny tranny starter makes you put it into a ready mode..... the DEI box is an addon piece for any of their starters.
Gus
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Wherever I go, that is where I end up......
Posted By: gus1
Date Posted: December 16, 2004 at 3:52 PM
BTW.... a VW diesel will start and try to drive away if left in gear with the ebrake on...... pretty much most diesels will have enough tourque to take off on you (I experimented with my last car to test this theory.... in a big open parking lot, of course)
Gus
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Wherever I go, that is where I end up......
Posted By: TheSaint421
Date Posted: December 16, 2004 at 6:04 PM
hagmanti wrote:
TRDCamry-- Do you have hood pin hooked up? Are you sure that it's getting depressed when the hood is down?
TheSaint241-- did you test on an incline? Did you test when your e-brake had failed? Did you test when you'd forgotten to set your e-brake? Did you test when you had set it, but someone else had messed w/ it? Did it still move only 3-4 inches in all those situations? Did you test when the engine was cold (and requires longer cranking) and the car near a patch of ice (so once started, wouldn't stop)?
Can you guarantee that you'll never park a foot away from another car, and have someone squeeze between the cars? Can you guarantee that no one will ever park a foot away from yours?
If you can answer yes to all those questions, then you won't have a problem w/ lawsuits. Otherwise, go to the trouble of ensuring your car can not start in gear.
Just my $.02,
Me
Hi, I agree that that module the other user sugested was safer, but in my opinion it's a huge pain in the ass, I much prefer just being able to shut off the car, get out and then if I want RS the car I can. and I always leave my car out of gear, and the e-brake on. I have never left it out of gear without the ebrake, and I have never left the car in gear unintentionally. Other people don't mess with my car, and if they do, then I take into account that something might not be set correctly, as in left in gear with or without the e-brake applied. As far as the E-brake cable breaking, this only occurs when you get someone that cranks the e-brake back as far as it will go all the time, some people just don't realize that you don't have to do this, and then the cable streches and eventually breaks, I take care of my car, and pay attention to this sort of thing. There is something to be said for just plain old stupidity. if I parked on a hill, then I would have the e-brake on and the car in gear while it was sitting, and then I just wouldn't RS the car in that situation, but since I don't park on a hill 99% of the time, that little inconvinience isn't that big of a deal. if you go to the trouble to put an RS system on your car, you should be aware of the effects it can have in certain situations, and plan for them. if you are a person that constantly forgets to take the car out of gear then further precautions are needed. I'm not saying by any stretch of the imaginatino that what has been said couldn't happen, but I have had RS on every one of my cars and have never hit antoher car with it, or tried to start the car while it was in gear. But thats just me. I get into the habbit of doing things a certain way, and if I have to leave the car in gear, then I have made a concious decision to do that, and can remember that the car is in gear... With that being said, I agree completely with you. I feel all the safety precautions for putting a RS on a manual are a pain in the ass, the only one I use is hooking the neutral/park wire into the e-brake switch, so that if the e-brake isn't on the car won't start. But aside from that I just make sure that I pay attention. There might be some of you out there that feel they might forget once in a while, or maybe it will make you more comfortable to have all the safety precautions you can get, either way there is nothing wrong with that. The saint
Posted By: bighops2000
Date Posted: December 17, 2004 at 1:50 AM
once you cut the starter wire the wire will be separated in two parts. The part that goes up to the ingnition is the key side and the other is the starter side
Posted By: TRDCamry
Date Posted: December 24, 2004 at 1:10 PM
riceman wrote:
Trdcamry it sounds like you have a problem with the hoodpin make sure the pin is not reciving ground or that you didnt leave the hood open while testing.I've done it many times now I always forget . And as for having a RS in a manual I've had mines for four yrs with no problems. Let me ask you is this your car? Do you have the netural safety hooked up to your e-brake? If yes to both questions you should be fine just be extra cautious especially when you let someone else drives your car because that person is less cautious then you and dont RS after someone has used your car because they might of lefted it in gear. Goodluck and be responsible.
yes this is my car, and i have tried it with the hood up and down. the alarm side works fine, when the hood up, my fren pushes the pin switch and i arm the car, he lets the pin switch go and the alarm goes off. im sure the pin switch is working fine. i havent hooked up the neutral safety swtich yet, just grounded it so that i could get the RS going, but it still doesnt crank for some reason.
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