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just got a new service bulliten today

"root cause of catalytic converter damage, has been determined that aftermarket alarm systems incorrectly installed have the potential to cause misfire codes and damage the converter. these alarm systems use a circuit interrupt which utilizes the ignition circuit on the vehicles. these alarm systems utilize mechanical relays to engage and disengage the ignition circuit and can engage while the vehicle is in motion. these interruptions which occur in milliseconds may cause more fuel to be commanded. over time , this dumping of fuel on and off cna damage the catalytic converter."

"engineering could not identify any alarms that utilize solid state circuitry that would eliminate the concern. it has been determined that all alarm systems should be routed through the starter circuit in to avoid this condition.

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Soooo..... how does their OE remote start work then? Isn't it relays just like every one else? Maybe we should go back in time and use those old cursed huge MOSFET output Command Starts (CS3300? I can't remember the model#, but they looked like an amp... heatsinks and all!)

Gus

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Wherever I go, that is where I end up......

Case in point, they say ignition circuit not starter circuit. They also specifically say "incorrectly installed". Don't do ign kills.

They don't say anything about remote starts, they are saying that a relay inline with the ign wire will trip accidentally causing raw fuel to pass throught the engine ruining the cat. Gee, where are the people that were wanting to flaming exhaust at???

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Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.

So let me pose a question. It says that the relays on the ignition can energize and cause misfires, but if the car is running already what is it going to do? That is my question.

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It doesn't say energizing the ign, it says cutting power to the ign. It is the whole part about interupting the system.

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Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.

Yeah, I jsut thought of that auex. Who does ign kills anymore? Fuel and starter for me

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Ign and fuel pump are pretty much 1 and the same. The fuel system will continue to hold pressure and if the injectors are still powered then this would still happen. If anything cuts power to the ecu/distributor then there would still be the same problem.

Also if you are just figuring out that GM hates us, then there is something wrong.

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Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.

Can you say " scapegoat "

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

Ahh internet slow... Can't post fast enough. After rereading the bulletin and taking some deep breaths I am not as mad. Yes I already knew gm hated us, but this is the first time I saw a bulletin that directly pointed a finger at us and only us. As far as the fuel pumd goes... Remember the old school gm like cutlass and the like that only had 10 fuses... One marked fuel everybody in detroit takes that fuse out if they are too cheap to get an alarm!

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It is easier to blame then finding the root cause.

actually thats an old bulletin... it came out a few years ago... unless they are just re-releasing it

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Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer

Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979

Yeah, my boss just printed it. It was slightly revised.
Going with auex idea... I don't think that they are using us as a scapegoat for once I think they have a valid piont. As auex stated an ign kill is what they are speaking of. Now going on that theory, we have alll taken a relay apart. I can see the small contact bouncing around on ocassion opening and closing the ign circuit. But my original statement I will stand by. Gm hates us. I love them they give me a check every week and another one at the end of the month

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Last time I checked, fuel pumps were operated through a mechanical relay, in probably every fuel injected viehical. How could you reliably past the required current to keep it operating? Strange, most of the newer GM's, Epica, Colorado, Corvette ect, ( the ones that you need to just turn the key and let go to start) use these very same relays to operate the oem system. What's good enough for the General, it not acceptable for the rest of us. Say, isn't the cure for Cavaliers catching fire putting a relay in the starter wire. Go fiqure.

Proof they hate us, how many times have you cut your self on GM panels?

I pretty much figured they hated us when they started Databus decks. Lets also not forget them deciding it would be a good idea to make us remove the entire top of the dash to tak ethe bezel off to do a deck install on the newer cavaliers. That was done outta spite and you cant tell me other wise. To be fair though there are lots of things that many vehicle manufactures do that seem either excesive or unnesassary that makes our lives hell. O well, guess it comes with the job.

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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer

no, the worst one is still the new GMC savana van, I think the steering column was the last thing installed in that vehicle. That dash is a BUGGER to get out.

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Shaughn Murley
Install Manager, Dealer Services
Visions Electronics
Red Deer, Alberta

Have you ever installed an alarm in a Vette,I'm pushing 200+ lbs. Not easy when you're a BIG guy posted_image

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ASE Certified

extreme1 wrote:

no, the worst one is still the new GMC savana van, I think the steering column was the last thing installed in that vehicle. That dash is a BUGGER to get out.

I didn't think it was that bad for those Savana vans. I hate those Astro Vans though with a passion. Especially with that stupid bonnet cover for the center dash ! What a stupid idea.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

i agree jeff. the full size van isnt bad, i jsut drop the column down a little bit and then there is plenty of room to party in the dash. i really hate the hutch cover thing i always forget about the two torx at the bottom.

you know whats funny... looking at a topic that gets a lot of posts you can see hoe it slowly evolves into a whole nother topic. i love this place! the gm car i am currently hating is the buick lacrosse. i cant seem to find a good place to grab the wires and no place for 12v in the car? i have small hands and it is still a pain in the butt to get at the bcm wires. any tips

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its not just GM that hates us. its pretty much every vehicle manufacturer. its interesting that Ford used to put in owners manuals that remote starts are strongly not recommended and they made up some BS saying it would damage the ingnition system...oh but all of a sudden, after a deal struck with Code Alarm, they offer it as an option from the factory. this is a cuthroat industry. but no matter what they do..they will never stop us from doing our job! lol

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I know someone out there has to remember the Toyota Previa. Not a GM but another fun vehicle.

I just did the previa, Hood pin under the drivers seat. Just f**king funny. I spent like 3 minutes looking for the hood release while I was talking to a customer then it hit me that there was no hood. Just have to laugh at stuff like that.

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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer

gm hates us