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problem, or unit itself?

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=5007
Printed Date: May 19, 2024 at 10:50 PM


Topic: problem, or unit itself?

Posted By: LudeBoi
Subject: problem, or unit itself?
Date Posted: October 31, 2002 at 3:27 PM

My alarm is weird....after i programmed all the settins i want, sometimes it will work and sometimes wont work....like the ignition controlled door locks, and forced arming ( i turned off, but it still arms when door is open), and sometimes it locks itself when i set the passive arming, which i dont want it to, also, sometimes i cant get into program mode....i would hold down the button forever, and it still doesnt get me into program mode... is this installation problem or the unit is messed up? Can someone please tell me, b/c the dood that sold it to me, said its my fault for not installing right.....thankss



Replies:

Posted By: cpgoose
Date Posted: November 01, 2002 at 8:59 AM
what kind of alarm is it?  does it have remote start?  I have a similar problem, and mine is also a remote starter.  There's a problem either with my alarm's ignition wire, or seomthing of that sort.  The IGN controlled door locks would mess up, it's hard to get into programming mode....stuff you mentioned.




Posted By: LudeBoi
Date Posted: November 01, 2002 at 9:12 AM
i have the Viper 550 ESP, but i didn't hook up the remote start, and i hooked up the pink wire from the satelite relay to the ignition. what do you have?




Posted By: cpgoose
Date Posted: November 01, 2002 at 9:38 AM

aye caramba...same alarm....almost same problem.

In my case, though, everything worked fine, until I installed a 530t (window module).  Something messed up, and that's when my IGN controlled stuff (the domelight, the door locks....) all started going hay-wire.  I finally turned off some of those options.  If I wiggle some of the wires on my relay satellite (for the remote starter) while I have the key in the II position (so there's power ot the ignition wire), I can actually hear the relays clicking on and off.  So somehow the ignition power ot the alarm is cutting.





Posted By: LudeBoi
Date Posted: November 01, 2002 at 3:11 PM
hmm im pretty sure i connected the ignition wire correct...AHHH somebody help us both!!




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: November 01, 2002 at 7:08 PM
cpgoose & LudeBoi.... what year , mak and model car is it ? Have you checked the ignition wires on both vehicles to ensure that you are loosing 12 volts from the target wire when the ignition is off ?

-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: LudeBoi
Date Posted: November 02, 2002 at 11:50 AM
98 Honda Prelude, because, i can easily get in and out of valet mode, on the 550 ESP, you must put the key in the ignition on, then off, then push the button to turn on/off valet mode, when i do it, it reacts, instantly, but sometimes i cant get into programming mode...thanks




Posted By: cpgoose
Date Posted: November 02, 2002 at 12:36 PM
hmmm...I have a '92 Integra.  I have trouble getting into and out of Valet mode with the button, so sometimes I have to use the remote to do it instead.  I haven't checked the ignition wire to see if it loses 12v when the car is off....so I'lll try that.  While I was driving yesterday, it was actually turning my dome light on and off, so I stuck my hand under the dash, and wiggle some alarm wires, and it stopped.




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: November 02, 2002 at 4:46 PM

Make sure that both of you check all connections ( I hope you both soldered and not crimped ) and make sure you do not have a  cold solder. One thing to check for is the valet button is actually cutting power when it's supposed to. Try to disconnect the valet switch from the unit temporarily and see if the problem persists.

Ludeboi: Do you have the door open for the valet mode ? Make sure it is because it needs to see that the door is open in order for you to put it in the valet.

cpgoose: make sure that you check the door pin switch as well as the wire to ensure that you are getting a (-) signal when you try to get into valet mode.



-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: boymata
Date Posted: November 05, 2002 at 2:52 PM
greetings everyone. I am also having some weird actions going on with my system. I have Clifford matrix RS III
and my ignition controlled door locks would not operate properly. I have noticed that this occurs during cold mornings
when i go to work.   I can hear the relays working though. In the afternoon when its warmer, it works just fine.
Also this past Mon my doors wont unlock even
if the signals were recieved by confirmation beeps. It is a very odd stuation in that it happens everyother day.
Is it a relay troubleshoot ? Loose wiring? Or is it an insulation problem with the wires? Thank you for your help.

-------------
thank you




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: November 06, 2002 at 12:59 AM
Try replacing the current relays in the system and see if this remedies your problem.

-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: cpgoose
Date Posted: November 06, 2002 at 7:27 AM
Hey, if all else fails....I was going to replace the 4 satellite relays and the starter kill relay, too.  If the problem still persists, could it be the female harness that I have attached to the relays?  (among other problems)




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: November 06, 2002 at 7:44 AM
Hey cpgoose....... don't start blaming the female gender for any short comings just yet posted_image. Make sure that your wires leading from the car into the door ( if any ) all have the insulation intact. If for any reason they are grounding out, there will be your problem.

-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: cpgoose
Date Posted: November 06, 2002 at 7:46 AM

HA!  posted_image

Yea, but the ignition cuts out when I "jiggle" wires on the relay satellite.  The doors don't mess up anymore, now that I've turned off the ignition controlled door locks.  Although it does occassionally (the domelight) come on because
it thinks
I opened a door.  Hmmm....maybe some of the wires that I dragged into the doors (for power door locks)  have become stripped, and are tripping the system.  Just can't figure out the jiggle.

EDIT:  Agh, now that I think about it, when I was driving down the road, and the system was tripped, which turned on the domelight and stuff.....if it was the wires for the power door locks that I installed, wouldn't the doors have tried to lock/unlock, even though i turned off the ign controlled locks?





Posted By: boymata
Date Posted: November 06, 2002 at 2:42 PM
Jeff, should i rule out the insulation theory? Does the cold air affect the wire connections and relays if not enough electrical tape or insullation is used? Is it a feasable cause? I'l try the jiggle approach that cpgoose used to pinpoint. the relay replacement seems tricky for me. agagin thank you for the suggestions. I'll let you know the outcome or ask another question if something new comes up. take it easy!

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thank you




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: November 06, 2002 at 2:53 PM
boymata, usually cold and heat doesn't affect the function of a relay, rather moisture & humidity. Try wiggling the wires and if it responds, then you know there's a loose connection somewhere.

-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: cpgoose
Date Posted: November 06, 2002 at 6:59 PM
hey ludeboi...have you made any progress?

Well, I just looked at mine tonight some more...to no avail. I replaced 3 of the 4 relays in the satellite with new ones. It didn't act up. I jiggled it like jello, and nothing. So I thought I finally figured it out, went to install everything "nicely", and it messed up. ARg. Even with the 3 new relays. So, it could have been one of the other 2 relays left (the starter kill or the 4th relay of the satellite).

I also unplugged the valet switch to see if it would still act up, and it did.

One thing that I'm kind of catching is that I tested for continuity between the pink ignition wire at the relay and the car's ignition wire at the fuse box. When the car's ign was on, there was only a brief "beep" of continuity. When I turned off the car, there was continuity. Is this how it should act?

maybe I should just buy a new relay satellite...arg!
Sell me a pager system:-)




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: November 06, 2002 at 8:06 PM
I would say that this is a defective unit if all that you have done and it still does the same thing. The IGNITION wire is suppose to loose ALL power after you turn the key to OFF. If there is still residual current then one of the relays is not turning itself off. I had this once before and I checked all the output pins and one had 6 volts on it and eventually drained the battery. Simple fix was to grab an ignition power source instead of a constant power cource seeing that it was for a circuit that only needed power when the ignition system was engaged.

-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: cpgoose
Date Posted: November 08, 2002 at 5:59 AM

Hmmm.....so I could either have a defective unit or a defective satellite relay, right?

I checked the ignition wires in the satellite relay when the car was off.  I think the pink wire dropped to 0, but the pink/white wire had like 6.7 mV.  (Is that worth anything?)

What I really wanted to check on is if the two ignition wires of the relay satellite should show continuity with the car ign wires they're hooked into when the car is off and on.  Like I said in a previous post the pink/white shows continuity when on or off, but the pink only showed continuity (beeeeep) when the car was off.  Should it show when it's on, too?





Posted By: mobiletoys2002
Date Posted: November 08, 2002 at 7:02 AM

if the pink wire was connected to the proper wire than it should show voltage in the run,and start position and continuity to ground when the key is off.





Posted By: cpgoose
Date Posted: November 08, 2002 at 7:09 AM

ahhh, thanks!  I'll try checking that.  I guess that's what was happening because I wasn't getting continuity when the car was off (between the pink wire and the ign wire of the car).

Is this the same thing for the pink/white (secondary ignition) wire on the relay satellite, too?





Posted By: joelr7309
Date Posted: November 08, 2002 at 10:16 AM

Hey there, I'll jump on the band wagon and ask some question, I have a 92 Integra Manual SEdan like CPGOOSE and here are my questions regarding the 550esp alarm I bought, 1. Wait to Start, Deisel do I need to hook that up, or just ignore it, 2. what is a secondary ignition output  pink/white, 3. climate control, do I have to hook this up and where?,  4. I have a 5 speed, how do I hook up the remote start on this,  Thanks folk hope you can help again JEFF



-------------
THE ROOKIE!~




Posted By: cpgoose
Date Posted: November 08, 2002 at 10:41 AM

Hey joelr....as for the 5-speed part of your question, installing remote starts in a manual
is a touchy subject, so I'm not going to answer that one.   They have remote starters that
are specifically designed for manuals, and I don't think the 550esp is one of them.

Anyway.......(1)Yea, I think you can just leave the Wait To Start (deisel) wire alone
....tape it off.  (2)The secondary ignition output (pink/white) wire has to go to the
 Integra's second igntion wire.  In my car, the BLACK / YELLOW wire is the primary ignition
and the blue/white is the secondary igntion wire.  (3) Climate Control....I'm assuming
you mean the orange wire from the remote starter.  If when you remotely start the car,
you want the heater or air conditioner to come on (which I'm sure you do), then yes,
you have to hook up this wire.  In my Integra, I hooked it up to the Yellow wire in
the ignition harness, which controls the "accessory blower" for the air and heat.

Post more questions if you got 'em.  Below is a link for the '92 Integra's wiring.





Posted By: joelr7309
Date Posted: November 08, 2002 at 1:22 PM

 Thanks  "CPGOOSE"

   The INFO you gave is great,  secondary ignitions, your talking about  blue/white,  is it located at the steering columm next to the ignition BLACK / YELLOW,           WIRING INFORMATION 1992 Acura Integra 

WIRE

COLOR

LOCATION

12V CONSTANT

WHITE

Ignition harness

12V IGNITION

BLACK / YELLOW

Ignition harness

12V ACCESSORY

YELLOW

Ignition harness

STARTER

BLACK/ WHITE

Ignition harness

PARKING LIGHTS (+)

RED / GREEN

Steering column

POWER LOCK (-)

BLACK/ WHITE

Drivers kick panel

POWER UNLOCK (-)

BLACK/ RED

Drivers kick panel

DOOR TRIGGER (-)

GREEN/ RED

Drivers kick panel/ Fuse box

DOMELIGHT SUPERVISION (-)

Use door trigger wire

Use door trigger wire

TRUNK PIN (-)

GREEN/ BLACK

Drivers kick panel/ Fuse box

BRAKE WIRE (+)

GREEN / WHITE

Brake switch

TACHOMETER

BLUE

Distributor

HORN TRIGGER (-)

BLUE/RED

Steering column

12V RADIO CONSTANT

WHT/YEL or WHT/BLU

Radio

12V RADIO SWITCHED

YELLOW/RED

Radio

GROUND

BLACK

Radio 

POWER ANTENNA

BROWN / WHITE

Radio

DASH LIGHT DIMMER

ORANGE

Radio

LEFT FRONT (+)

BLUE/GREEN

Radio

LEFT FRONT (-)

GRAY/BLACK

Radio

LEFT REAR (+)

BLUE / YELLOW

Radio

LEFT REAR (-)

GRAY/WHITE

Radio

RIGHT FRONT (+)

RED / GREEN

Radio 

RIGHT FRONT (-)

BROWN / BLACK

Radio

RIGHT REAR (+)

RED / YELLOW

Radio 

RIGHT REAR (-)

BROWN / WHITE

Radio

NOTE:

-Door trigger looks like 14-gauge wire but mostly insulation.

MAN MY BUDDY HAS THE SAME VIPER ALARM 550esp, and his is manual and he got his starter remote hooked up, just make sure that your not on 1st gear, Maybe someone know's how, some where out there or "JEFF" might know?



-------------
THE ROOKIE!~




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: November 08, 2002 at 3:32 PM
You can install any automatic remote starter in to any vehicle but you run the risk of having it in gear. You may " always " put it in nuetral, but it only takes one time and you'll regret it afterwards. You can put safety features that will ensure that you have the parking brake on ( ground the system to the e-brake ). You can put a magnetic switch in the shifter that will not engage the system if it is grounded at the shifter by the switch. Otherwise if there are no precaustion being taken, I too would highly suggest not to put in a remote starter into a manual without proper precaustions being taken to ensure the safety of the driver and others around the vehicle at time of starting.

-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: mobiletoys2002
Date Posted: November 08, 2002 at 9:07 PM
hey cp the second ignition output will have the same characteristics  as the ignition wire.




Posted By: mobiletoys2002
Date Posted: November 08, 2002 at 9:23 PM
hey cp the ignition wire in vehicles rests at ground and switches to 12 volts when the key is in the run position and start position this wire should not drop more than a few 10's of a volt while cranking. the second ignition is used to power up circuits for abs,tranny"s,airbags,etc this wire has to be connected sothat you dont get an error light on the dash the light may come up because the second ign is used to power the ecu  and this monitors whateever that wire is used for like airbags ,transmition control units etc, so if this wire was not connecte dthe ecu will think that the tranny,airbag or whatever was malfunctioning and display a warning light.Does your alarm passively arm? if so your ignition wire is operating properly. you may have a break in the valet wire somwhere that you cant see, double check it make sure that one wire is getting ground from the rermote starter if it has no ground on one wir ethe unit cannot go into valet mode. The valet switch works by ground pulses the unit should be sending a ground on one of those wires,when you press the valet button it completes the path for the ground to flow back to the brain.




Posted By: LudeBoi
Date Posted: November 09, 2002 at 7:01 PM
Whoa! alot of responses, sorry guys, i've been really busy lately and havent had any time to work on my car, Im planning to fool around with it Monday, i'll keep you guys updated! thanks




Posted By: boymata
Date Posted: November 11, 2002 at 6:29 AM
Greetings Jeff. I tried troubleshooting this past weekend on my system. Tried the wiggling of the wires to see if there are loose connections. Nothing was going off, with the ignition on or off. The relay seemed fine, I wrapped it with electrical tape thinking maybe the moisture is affecting it. i dont know what else to look for. All connections are solid. Should i wrap wireswith more tape? I worked on this Sun afternoon and it was warm. Its funny that the system works perfect during warm weather, but when the cold and rain comes around it acts up. This is very frustrating. Hope you have any other tips. Thank you Jeff.

-------------
thank you




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: November 11, 2002 at 8:56 AM
boymata  what vehicle is this system in and also did you use solder for your connections or quick connects ?

-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: boymata
Date Posted: November 11, 2002 at 9:56 AM
Jeff, Its in a 2001 Honda CR-V Ex and the connections are not soldered. Its connected by exposing the copper wiring with a stripper then wrapping it with the system's wires stripped ends then wrapped it with electrical tape. I watched it as it was being done. It seems the wrapping was done tight. Do i need to go back to the installer for rewiring or do i have to solder it? The reason for not soldering I think is that in the event I want to transfer this sytem to another car, it would make it easier to unwrap. Connections to the ignition are well done as I witnessed it. Its just these ignition controlled locks and Lock/ Unlock functions that is acting up during inclement weather. What is your advice?

-------------
thank you




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: November 11, 2002 at 10:20 AM
WHAT !!! I suggest going back and getting them soldered for sure. If anything, the problem might go away after this, but if not.....at very least the installation would have been done properly.

-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: PLAYER69
Date Posted: November 11, 2002 at 10:24 AM

Solder, solder, solder!  There is no substitute!





Posted By: boymata
Date Posted: November 11, 2002 at 10:56 AM
I was afraid of that. He did my wife's car and it hasnt acted up. Due to scheduling and the installer being out of state, I will be unable to go back to him. I have done 1 or 2 soldering jobs but nothing heavy. In your Pro opinion, can i go back and solder it myself? Solder all connections?   Is their a solder gun that can be plugged in to the cigarette lighter? Jeff, I appreciate your patience with this.

-------------
thank you




Posted By: joelr7309
Date Posted: November 12, 2002 at 1:58 AM

Best way to solder is to put something to cover yyour rugs so that it doesn't get burn and then buy a converter to plug in to the cigg lighter and plug your   solder if you don't have any outlets near by and solder away, buy a bright light so you can see in those akward positions,

Jeff,  (-) Mulitiplexed input, Zone 4  to and Optional Sensor, what can I hook that up to?



-------------
THE ROOKIE!~




Posted By: joelr7309
Date Posted: November 12, 2002 at 4:18 AM

CPGOOSE  

where did you connect these wires on your 550ESP viper alarm, if you have the manuals, look this up  1.  H3/1 BLue (-) status output     2.  H3/2  Blue/Black (-) optional third igintion output, where the hell is the third ignition output,  thanks dude, All most done with this fun installation of my alarm,   JOEL                                                                                                            



-------------
THE ROOKIE!~




Posted By: boymata
Date Posted: November 12, 2002 at 6:27 AM
Thank you for the suggestion Joel. Gots some lookin up to do now. Should i solder all wire connections or just the trouble spots? Any soldering techniques? again thanx. Hope your systems install go well. Good group of guys in this forum!

Boymata

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thank you




Posted By: cpgoose
Date Posted: November 12, 2002 at 6:43 AM

well, to tell you the truth it's been a few months, so I can't remember if I just taped those up or if they had to be grounded.

1.  H3/1 Blue - This alarm wire outputs a negative signal when the remote starter is engaged.  It's used to do things like shut down a sensor.  I didn't need to use it, but I can't remember if I grounded it or if I just taped it up.  Probably just taped it. 

2.  H3/2 Blue/Black - It's the alarm's optional third ignition output.  If our cars had a third ignition wire, then we would need this blue/black wire to hook up to the third ignition wire.  We don't have a 3rd ignition wire, though, (we only have 2), so I didn't use this wire.  I'm pretty sure you can just tape it off.

I'm sure someone can say whether these 2 can either be taped or if they have to be grounded.  I just can't remember what I did, I just know i didn't need them.





Posted By: joelr7309
Date Posted: November 12, 2002 at 2:06 PM

Well I use FLUX, it's a type of lube that I put on the wires.   When I solder, it intends to spread out around the area I solder, instead of just having a big chunk  of solder on one area. They should have it at the hardware store where you can buy a soldering gun,  then try to wrap the wire's with 3M electrical tape so it looks like the factorys wiring, so that the thiefs don't know where the brains at to cut when your alll done with the procedure's,  GOOD LUCK "BOYMATA"

CPGOOSE  Thanks for the info, That's good enough for me. I try again on the system this weekend ,   You too    " JEFF"  Thanks Again





Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: November 12, 2002 at 4:10 PM

Try using a cordless soldering iron... I know it's more expensive, but you don't have to wait for it to heat up as long and it's alot easier to use. Solder all connection that are not soldered for a trouble free installation.



-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: PLAYER69
Date Posted: November 12, 2002 at 4:35 PM
Um, joel your not using flux for soldering pipes are you?  If you are you should stop!  It is not to be used on electrical!  If you use the proper solder you will not need any type of flux.




Posted By: boymata
Date Posted: November 12, 2002 at 8:21 PM
Thank you Jeff.  What type of solder?  Is there a difference in wieght or brand like for example using a 16 gauge wire versus a 22 gauge wire?  I appreciate you and Joel and everone's suggestions.  When the weather clears and time permits, this will be a project.  I'll keep everyone posted.

-------------
thank you




Posted By: mobiletoys2002
Date Posted: November 12, 2002 at 8:52 PM
60/40 rosin core electrical solder is great and will make a excellent connection on wires the thicker the solder tends to work better on thicker wires i use a medium guage solder that is a great all purpose solder.I have used radio shack solder and had no problems get it in the roll 60/40 is the percentage of the metals in it, but make sure it is rosin core that is for electrical connections without the need for flux.




Posted By: joelr7309
Date Posted: November 12, 2002 at 9:41 PM

Player69  

Oh no I'm not using pipe flux,  it say on the container NOKORODE soldering paste, sorry bout that, let me make that  correction, but I believe it's meant for electrical wiring, not pipes, but it works great  without spilling all the solder on the floor, I think  JEFF had a great Idea about the about the cordless solder, alittle more expensive but very stress free,   thanks PLAYER, I keep that in mind,

CPGOOSE  H1/3 WHITE/ blue remote start (-) activation input,  Where did you hook this up?





Posted By: PLAYER69
Date Posted: November 12, 2002 at 9:47 PM

Make sure your flux is for electrical.  I have never heard of it and have been in the electronics industry for 10 years.  I worked on a truck tonight where the previous installer used the wrong solder  and probably used flux as well.  The problem with flux is it is acid and will corode the hell out of the wires.  This truck had the wires coroded 3 inches each way from the point of solder.   Not nice.  The wires pretty much need to be replaced.

I would suggest switching to a good 60/40 rosin core solder and forget the flux.  I have no problem soldering without drips on the floor. 90% of the battle is a hot enough soldering iron.  I suggest Snap-on butane model.  I posted a link to it a while back in the 12 volt install bay name 'tools of the trade'





Posted By: cpgoose
Date Posted: November 13, 2002 at 6:18 AM

Quote:  "CPGOOSE  H1/3 WHITE/ blue remote start (-) activation input,  Where did you hook this up?"

well, once again I remember the wire, but not really what I did with it.  I remember that I didn't hook it up to a pushbutton for "easy access to valet take over" as the manual says.  I believe if you don't use it for that, then you have to ground the wire instead.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong (or let us know if I'm right posted_image )





Posted By: cpgoose
Date Posted: November 13, 2002 at 6:22 AM
Does anyone know if you can (or how) to remove the wire and the female spade connector out of the female relay harness?  I'm thinking maybe some of the female spade connectors are loose (no pun intended)....so I'm trying to either crimp them tighter or replace them.....but I can't get them out of the harness.




Posted By: mobiletoys2002
Date Posted: November 13, 2002 at 6:57 AM
if not connecting a valet takover switch then all you have to do is tape up and leave alone .There is no need to ground at all.




Posted By: joelr7309
Date Posted: November 14, 2002 at 2:28 AM

Someone answer this question

 For a Manual transmission 92 Integra, is there an (+) or (-) connection standard, that I can hook up so that the alarm know's it's in gear or neutral, or do I have to make up some type of micro switch or magnetic sensor to get this reading, I'm doing this for a remote start safety. So if I remote start the car, and it's in gear that it won't start until it's on neutral.






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