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Remote kill - while the vehicle is moving

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=50601
Printed Date: May 08, 2024 at 3:49 PM


Topic: Remote kill - while the vehicle is moving

Posted By: Steventy
Subject: Remote kill - while the vehicle is moving
Date Posted: February 22, 2005 at 3:20 AM

I need to be able to turn a vehicle off from a distance while it is running and moving.  I realize that this might sound dangerous if people were in the vehicle but it is the opposite scenario.  The vehicle is unmanned and we want to be able to insert a relay into the electronic circuitry at the right place so that the vehicle will stop running when we hit a switch from our remote control.  We have everything figured out except where to insert the relay.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve




Replies:

Posted By: soundmasta
Date Posted: February 22, 2005 at 7:32 AM

i recently did a snowobile like that for the state police. you're case will be easy, the snowmobile wasn't fuel injected, and nothing but the battery for elec. start was 12v.

here's what i did.

i used a crimestopper rs 900 7. i hooked up the ground, and 12v in. cut the ign wire, or in your case you could even use the fuel pump, and wire it to a relay like a starter kill, using the remote starters 1st ign. output as a trigger. this will kill the vehile, and hold the circuit open as long as the run time is set for.

it was also requested to me that, in addition to remote control shut down, they need the option of a timer so that it would turn off automatically after 15-20 seconds when started. i simply used a door lock pulse generator which pulls signal from a 12v source that turns on when the sled does (the headlamps), which triggers a pulse timer module set to hold the remot starts ign. signal open,(preventing it from shutting down the sled like it does in normal operation mode) and at the same time another relay is triggered that activates the remote starts neg. activation lead. if you can imagine all of this taking place, (and it is very carefully orchestrated), the the sled is started, remains running, even though the rs-900 is activated. when the timer module times out, it allows the remote start to break the snowmobiles ignition wire, causing the sled to die and not be started again untill the remote start times out.

kind of long winded, but effective. it has been put to use, and even made the new around here. there are plans to use the sled all over the state in sting operations.

if you have any other ?'s or i didn't expalin somthing clearly, let me know.



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Posted By: Steventy
Date Posted: February 23, 2005 at 4:27 AM

Thank you for the quick and informative answer.  Using that and the manual for the vehicle I will attempt to implement the system.  It will be completely home-grown.  We have a remote control that will just give us a logic signal and then we will be purchasing a relay.  From what I understand I will be cutting the ignition wire and placing this relay in its path.  I have to make sure that the modification I do will actually kill the vehicle and not just prevent it from starting as more common installations are designed to do.  It will probably become more clear to me when I get the vehicles electrical drawing.

Thanks again,

Steve





Posted By: soundmasta
Date Posted: February 23, 2005 at 7:28 AM

if i were you i'd look at using the fuel pump wire as your target. it's surefire. some cars might still run off a second or even third ign. what vehicle are you doing this to? i'll tell you what wire you need and where you will find it. are  you trying to catch pirates that have been taking your cars? is it auto or manual?

how long of a signal does your remote control module put out? a single pulse won't be enough to ensure shutdown on a moving vehicle. thats why i used a remotestart module. i get a 40 min. pulse. i also used on with a two way remote, which is the best way to go with somthing this dangerous. that way you know if you should flee the scene. oh man....i bet your planing to use this device in a bank robbery, aren't you. damn. now im an accessory.



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Posted By: ituneyou
Date Posted: February 25, 2005 at 2:18 AM
It sounds like they want to use this application in some type of bulldozer or offroad vehicle

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A man has got to know his limitations




Posted By: Steventy
Date Posted: February 25, 2005 at 3:17 AM
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the replies. The vehicle is an automatic 1990 jeep Cherokee. The application is developing a remote controlled full size vehicle with eventual goals of adding autonomous control for entry into the DARPA Grand Challenge. As it turns out our wireless emergency stop receiver has 4 relays as outputs that can be either latching or momentary and are rated at 28VDC 12Amps. This should make this even easier I would think. The vehicle is an automatic. what will happen if an automatic vehicle is driving at a speed, (maybe 20Mph) and the fuel pump is turned off or the ignition is cut?
Thanks a ton!
Steve




Posted By: IrishDoc
Date Posted: February 25, 2005 at 10:19 AM
the vehicle should just slowly roll to a stop (like running out of gas). in most cases (99%) there is no actuall harm done to the vehicle as long as it doesnt hit anything. My concern would be if you choose to shut down the vehicle are you going to loose any 12-v supply you may need to control the steering and with shutting the vehicle down that will be very difficult without a powersteering pump. just some things to look at. hope the first part helps.

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Just A Hobby Installer




Posted By: cosmoworks
Date Posted: February 25, 2005 at 10:36 AM
Steering doesn't need electrical power. The pump is driven by the engine so steering assistance comes in only when the engine is on. Killing the fuel pump or the ignition 12+ will both kill power steering.




Posted By: soundmasta
Date Posted: February 26, 2005 at 8:19 AM

just build a robot.



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Posted By: Steventy
Date Posted: February 26, 2005 at 2:26 PM

Just build a robot?  What does that mean?

We found the wire to cut that will kill it well, now we just need to figure out how many amps it carries.  It is coming straight out of the ignition switch and we believe it goes to a fuel pump relay, some other relay and the ECU so it shouldn't carry much, but it is a rather large wire.  I know its easy enough to find out if you have some basic tools, but we dont.





Posted By: cosmoworks
Date Posted: February 28, 2005 at 11:12 AM
What I find interesting is that you guys are going to build an un-manned, GPS controlled, self navigating vehicle, but you're unsure of how to interupt ONE wire to stop the vehicle?!!!

But to answer your question, ignition circuits typically carry a amperage rating of 20 amps. A standard 30-amp relay works fine for ignition cut (hopefully your emergency stop receiver can do that, otherwise it's not that hard to wire it to drive a bosch automotive relay). The vehicle is old enough that ignition power isn't ECU controlled, meaning you don't have to cut the fuel in conjunction to safely stop the vehicle, since fuel pump and injectors will most likely lose their postive +12V supply once you remove the ignition power.




Posted By: soundmasta
Date Posted: February 28, 2005 at 4:47 PM

cosmoworks wrote:

What I find interesting is that you guys are going to build an un-manned, GPS controlled, self navigating vehicle, but you're unsure of how to interupt ONE wire to stop the vehicle?!!!

i agree...thats why i thought they might be using it in a bank robbery somehow.



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