Negative out put to Positive Door Locks
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=54014
Printed Date: May 10, 2024 at 12:49 AM
Topic: Negative out put to Positive Door Locks
Posted By: rhinopower
Subject: Negative out put to Positive Door Locks
Date Posted: April 16, 2005 at 2:53 AM
Just to double check how do i do it, my cliffords output can can be changed but without the software and laptop to hand i'd rather just use a couple of relays to interface it, can you please tell me how to wire them up and or show me which diagram to use!! Thanks Ryan
Replies:
Posted By: drvnbysound
Date Posted: April 16, 2005 at 4:21 AM
There are relay diagrams listed on this site already. Search under BASICS: Relays
You can also use 2 diodes, 1N4001 or 1N4007 would be fine. For this configuaration, you just connect 1 diode in-line with each output (lock, unlock) and wire them to the car wiring in reverse of what is listed.
I cant remember off the top of my head, but I know you have the blue and green (lock and unlock wiring from the alarm), these are the wires I am talking about using in reverse.
In the past I had used the relay setup, however came across this method before doing a 96 Jeep Grand Cherokee with positive pulse door locks, and it worked fine. Much less wiring to have to deal with.
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Posted By: drvnbysound
Date Posted: April 16, 2005 at 6:20 PM
I never said it would change the output. Its how it alters the signal inside the motor that makes it work I believe. I havent studied it all too well, but I installed a Crimestopper alarm/remote start in the Jeep and I saw the diode setup in there manual. Which I figured I would try because its a lot simplier than using the relay setup. It worked, which is all I needed.
I will see if I have time to do some configuring with the circuit and see if I can explain more on how it works. I am about to have my BS in Electrical Engineering, Im sure I can come up with something, but I just havent had to in the past. Just saw the diagram and hooked it up.
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Posted By: eurotek
Date Posted: April 16, 2005 at 7:39 PM
wow, do u people know what polarity means? if u have negative out going to a positive, u have to use relays, diodes will do nothing, ur still sending negative, diodes prevent feedback.. ur not gonna trick an electrical system with a diode to act like its a different polarity pins 87 and 86 go to 12volts constant, pins 85 got to lock and unlock output from alarm, pins 87a do nothing, and pins 30 go to the positive input , in this case the door locks VERY BASIC.
Posted By: drvnbysound
Date Posted: April 16, 2005 at 10:15 PM
I know what positive and negative door locking systems are, as well as how basic polarity is. I have installed plenty of alarms and those of you who have installed in a 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee, you know that it DOES NOT have the DataBus door locking system and its a POSITIVE PULSE DOOR LOCKING SYSTEM.
AGAIN.. I INSTALLED AN ALARM, WITH REMOTE START AND KEYLESS ENTRY... and I DID NOT USE A SINGLE RELAY. THE ALARM I USED DID NOT HAVE BUILT IN RELAYS, AND THE OUTPUT COULD NOT BE CHANGED VIA PROGRAMMING.
I will post the schematic later tonight.
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Posted By: drvnbysound
Date Posted: April 17, 2005 at 2:29 AM
I dont have a scanner, so I wasnt able to grab the picture from the Crimestopper manual. I re-drew the circuit as they have drawn in the manual for their CS-2011RS / CS-2015FM remote start alarm systems. This same photo is pictured in all of their keyless entry systems.
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Posted By: drvnbysound
Date Posted: April 17, 2005 at 1:48 PM
THIS WAS A POSITIVE PULSE DOOR LOCKING SYSTEM. I know what I used. Im simply stating that it worked, and that I got the schematic from an alarm company.
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Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: April 17, 2005 at 2:17 PM
Not taking any sides here, but there are some systems out there that if you tap into the relays you don't have to use installed relays to convert polarity. Point in mind is the Alero, Intrigue, Malibu's where the system is a Type F system but if you tap into the relays on the driver's side fuse panel, you can actuate the door lock/unlock with a (+) pulse instead of having to deal with the resistors. The Jeep I am not aware has this option, but if it has OEM relays to trigger the door locks, then it can be triggered by a (-) pulse or (+) depnding on the way that Jeep set up the OEM relay system for the vehicle. Aside from this though, if a vehicle has a (+) trigger system ( switch & motor ) then your only choice is to use a relay to convert the negative to a positive ( if the alarm/RS doesn't have alternating polarity outputs ). Diodes will not change the polarity, but this will prevent feedback into the RS/alarm system if installed correctly. ------------- Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Posted By: drvnbysound
Date Posted: April 17, 2005 at 10:32 PM
Im unsure of doing this with any other vehicle because I havent done a (+) pulse system since then, but I will try it again in the future. I did test the factory lock and unlock wiring in the kickpanel of the Jeep before I tapped into them with the diode configuration, and it was a +12V signal.
I was never trying to prove how it worked or didn't. Just the fact that its listed in the installation manual. I tried it, and it worked. I would have never thought to try something like that if it wasnt listed in a manual. Before this, I had always done the conventional 2-relay setup. I saw the post and figured I would add my knowledge/experience for others to know about.
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Posted By: d_arnold
Date Posted: April 18, 2005 at 1:06 AM
I've installed several Crimes Stopper alarms. And I've also used the diode method they provide with there manual. It does work with positive pulse door locks. But I believe it works because in the manual it states this crime stopper alarm can be connected to a positive or negative systems. The diodes are just there to protect the alarm itself. I would never recommend anyone to use a crime stopper manuel when installing another brand alarm. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Use two relays for this one it would be in your best intested unless they have provided another method.
posts 87 and 86 constent positive. 85 negative from alarm lock/ or unlock wire. 30 will output positive connect to lock/ or unlock wire in the car.
good luck, and remember if it doesn't work at all when your done you prolly broke it, and smoke is never good :)
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Posted By: wirewise
Date Posted: May 25, 2005 at 11:20 AM
drvnbysound, the door lock outputs from your alarm are both positive and negative. The one that shows positive during lock will show negative during unlock and the one that shows negative during lock will show positive during unlock. Adding diodes has in no way converted the polarity of the alarm's outputs. Diodes were only used to block the negative outputs from the alarm to the door lock wires. For alarms that only have negative door lock outputs, relays will be required for vehicles with positive door locks.
~wirewise~
Posted By: thepencil
Date Posted: May 25, 2005 at 12:23 PM
 ------------- Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. 
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