Neutral safety switch in 2005 subaru wrx
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=58955
Printed Date: April 28, 2024 at 12:40 AM
Topic: Neutral safety switch in 2005 subaru wrx
Posted By: tillithz
Subject: Neutral safety switch in 2005 subaru wrx
Date Posted: July 06, 2005 at 7:12 PM
as mentioned in https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=48267&KW=subaru+Neutral+
for the 2005 subaru wrx sti the neutral safety switch is a great idea, however it does NOT rest at positive 12 volts when in neutral (as mentioned in above link) but instead is negitive (Ground) this presents a problem when connecting a remote start and interfacing the neutral safety switch wire to the hood pin. you cant, otherwise it will see the hood open when in neutral, and we dont want that. Instead, many alarms such as the audiovox, code alarm, and others have a remote start enable/disable switch. like a master over ride switch. you can connect your neutral safety switch wire on this switch (not the negitive lead side) which will eliminate the need for this switch. You can even install it in such a way that you can retain the switch if need be, but not necessary.
hope this helps, enjoy
Replies:
Posted By: topspoiler
Date Posted: August 21, 2005 at 3:23 AM
The 05 Subaru is easy but the 04 or older is more difficult because when its in gear is negative and when its in neutral is nothing (not a true 12 volts. wont click relays). Also you canˇ¦t hook it up to the hood pin because when the car is in gear your alarm will give you a false trigger. Does anyone know how install a remote start with the neutral safety switch successful on a 04 or older Subaru WRX with no flaws?
Posted By: tillithz
Date Posted: August 21, 2005 at 12:43 PM
well, a quick and easy way may be to put in a relay. wire it up so that when in gear the ground that is present will trigger with say the ignition (use the ignition so that the relay is not energized most of the time) and the brake Basicly like this: 86 and 30 to an accessory or third ignition on the remote start 85 to the neutral switch that is ground when IN gear 87 to your brake input/shutdown wire of the remote start (you may want to isolate using a diode as well) this will basically tell the remote start that your stepping on the brake (assuming you have a + trigger brake wire) and thus wont let the remote start start. This is only useful if your brake wire is positive like the ignition, and there is a delay when starting from the remote start. IF the start function is instant when turning on the ignition then you cant do this. Now there is probably other ways, but this is what i could come up with so fast. hope this helps
Posted By: iskidoo
Date Posted: August 21, 2005 at 11:56 PM
Here's a great idea...GET A REMOTE STARTER DESIGNED FOR MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS. They require a few extra steps but they are safe.
-------------
Steve G
Posted By: tillithz
Date Posted: August 22, 2005 at 12:23 AM
welp, the extra steps are cumbersome and though it may "work" personally i think it is far too much of a paing over using a .50 relay in this case. In addition IF you dont perform the steps when exiting the vehicle each and every time then the remote start wont function. and thats even if it is in neutral. so for the tweakers and modders in us, the relay idea is a more effective and usefull way especially if you already have the remote start unit.
Posted By: topspoiler
Date Posted: August 22, 2005 at 3:18 AM
That might work but when your driving you'll hear the relay clicking.
Posted By: topspoiler
Date Posted: August 22, 2005 at 3:18 AM
That might work but when your driving you'll hear the relay clicking. Comon Joel thats the best you got?
Posted By: topspoiler
Date Posted: August 22, 2005 at 3:19 AM
That might work but when your driving you'll hear the relay clicking. Comon Jo*l thats the best you got?
Posted By: topspoiler
Date Posted: August 22, 2005 at 3:19 AM
That might work but when your driving you'll hear the relay clicking. Comon Jo*l thats the best you got?
Posted By: tillithz
Date Posted: August 22, 2005 at 11:05 AM
wow, you really needed 4 posts to say that? hehehe anyways, actually you wouldnt hear the relay clicking while your driving since it would only be activated by the third ignition output wire, which you could diode isolate everything. this means that the remote start would only function when your NOT driving and when you press the brake it would deactivate the remote start and require the vehicle and its ignition system to run. i would probably suggest at this time since it seems that your not to familiar with this stuff to have a pro do it for you, they can also probably suggest a remote start unit as well.
Posted By: JWorm
Date Posted: August 23, 2005 at 8:47 PM
Connect the neutral safety wire from the ECU to the brake input on the remote start. You will have to add diodes to prevent the foot brake wire from backfeeding to the neutral wire.
I have done it this way on a few STI's. I'll be doing it to mine next week. Works perfect. If you attempt to remote start in gear, the ignition will flick on for a split second. The remote start will see the 'brake input' wire with +12v on it and it will shut off. The car will never crank.
Also, connect the neutral wire (BLACK/ white on DEI units) from the remote start to the parking brake. It won't attempt to start if the parking brake is not on.
I highly suggest not trying to drive a relay with the ECU's neutral wire. There is a good chance you will burn out the wire.
I have done a handful of 04+ Subaru's using this method. From 02-04 a different method is used since the polarity of the neutral wire is the opposite.
Posted By: tillithz
Date Posted: August 23, 2005 at 10:14 PM
isnt the neutral switch negitive when in gear? so connecting that to the brake wire which is + works?
Posted By: iskidoo
Date Posted: August 23, 2005 at 10:17 PM
If it's not the correct polarity then invert it with a relay, look in the relay section to see how.
-------------
Steve G
Posted By: tillithz
Date Posted: August 23, 2005 at 10:22 PM
lol i know how to invert something using a relay. my question is if the neutral switch is negitve or positive. because as topspoiler said it was negitive in his first post in this thread. furthermore, it was said not to use a relay as it would fry the ecu possibly.
Posted By: JWorm
Date Posted: August 26, 2005 at 7:59 PM
tillithz wrote:
isnt the neutral switch negitive when in gear? so connecting that to the brake wire which is + works?
In 2002-03 the wire shows (-) in gear. In 2004+ the wire shows (+) in gear.
In 2002-03 connecting the neutral wire to the hood pin input works. In 2004+ connecting to the brake input works best.
Posted By: tillithz
Date Posted: August 26, 2005 at 8:45 PM
ok well that clears it up a bit for 04 and prior. because topspoiler said it was negitive when in gear. but believe it when i tell you that it is also ground when NOT in gear on 05 (sti model at least) so instead of putting it on the brake, where itll trigger the alarm for at least a split second then realize that the brake is pressed then stop from starting, it might be better to connect to the override switch to supply ground, and in all honesty a much cleaner install then to the brake wire signal. because without diode isolating it i would assume you would possibly fry the ecu by trying to light a brake light when connecting the neutral safety switch to it. it would be nice to know if the 04 is negitive in neutral position. I will check the ecu pin out diagram to see if it is set up like the 05 sti. because again, thats a much cleaner install and less work of having to diode isolate and possible damage to ecu over the brake wire solution. hope this info helps, enjoy.
Posted By: JWorm
Date Posted: September 05, 2005 at 10:00 AM
tillithz wrote:
ok well that clears it up a bit for 04 and prior. because topspoiler said it was negitive when in gear.
but believe it when i tell you that it is also ground when NOT in gear on 05 (sti model at least) so instead of putting it on the brake, where itll trigger the alarm for at least a split second then realize that the brake is pressed then stop from starting, it might be better to connect to the override switch to supply ground, and in all honesty a much cleaner install then to the brake wire signal. because without diode isolating it i would assume you would possibly fry the ecu by trying to light a brake light when connecting the neutral safety switch to it.
If you hook up the neutral wire to the brake input of the alarm/remote start it will not set off the alarm if you attempt to remote start in gear. At least it doesn't on a DEI system, I'm not sure about other companies products. The neutral wire does not read ground when in gear with the ignition on. It may show ground in gear with the ignition off, but that is not important.
Hooking the neutral wire to the BLACK/ white neutral safety input of a DEI remote start will work. I used that method in a Subaru Baja before. I don't like that method because I hook up the parking brake wire to the BLACK/ white neutral safety input of a DEI remote start. My way checks to make sure the parking brake is engaged, and it is in neutral.
tillithz wrote:
it would be nice to know if the 04 is negitive in neutral position. I will check the ecu pin out diagram to see if it is set up like the 05 sti. because again, thats a much cleaner install and less work of having to diode isolate and possible damage to ecu over the brake wire solution.
04 and 05 is the same. I had an 02 before, and now have an 05 Sti. I have also done installs on every year from 2002-2005.
If you don't know how to use diodes, you shouldn't be attempting this type of install.
Posted By: tillithz
Date Posted: September 05, 2005 at 11:09 AM
what are you talking about jworm? I have an understanding on connecting diodes. the question was not how to use a diode, but whether or not the 04 was the same, since it has been stated to be different ways in this thread, its rather complicated to know who to believe unless I have an 04 model in front of me. I appreciate that you mentioned you have in fact done it the same way I mentioned, but due to it not checking the parking break you do not prefer that install method. You could actually connect a relay with a third ign. To say 86 and the parking break to say 85 and the neutral switch to 30 and then 87 to your master over ride (neutral switch) on alarm. This would give you both neutral safety and parking break. Assuming of course theres no disagreement that the parking break is ground when in gauged. I just wanted to post this way for others to see and use if they so desired. Frankly, its just worth it to prove the point that: a) the initial info that the 05 rests at positive and to connect it to the brake wire, was a little lacking and a modification to the install would result in a better/cleaner install using the “when in gear” polarity. b) topspoiler was wrong when he said it was a certain polarity in gear/not in gear c)it is NOT safe to connect the neutral safety switch to power a relay or even a light then, as JWorm mentioned on the 2nd page In the end, all I was offering to the reader is that it functions perfectly fine, and in my opinion better then prev. mentioned. But when OTHER people posted stating that “in gear is negative and when its in neutral is nothing” I felt the need to correct this false info. And when it is posted that “not trying to drive a relay with the ECU's neutral wire” then in turn it would make sense to NOT drive a bulb, or even 2 or three, which is what the brake system is in the sti. As far as doing damage this system has been in my vehicle since I posted with absolutely no problems, no missed starts, no ecu burnouts, nothing negative. So the insult that “If you don't know how to use diodes, you shouldn't be attempting this type of install.” Is silly because apparently if I was competent enough to find this alternative way to install, and correct the accepted info then apparently I have an understanding of how to use a diode. Maybe if its still unclear to the reader, go back and read from the FIRST post in this thread, because all this back and forth is confusing to say the least. Just because I have 8 or 9 posts certainly does not dictate my installation knowledge level too, but simply that I do not or have not posted much here. Anyways I hope the info explained here that is truthful is helpful to someone.
|