Printer Friendly Forum Posts - What to do about warranty

I'd like to buy an alarm by itself an install it in my car (probably compustar). However, I realize that if I install it myself, the warranty is void. This aggrivates me as for one I don't want to hand the car over to an installer and risk having the interior messed up or anything. Second, I work as a dealership mechanic, and I'm fully confident I could do an alarm install myself. The car also already has most of the wiring laid out from a previous alarm. So I'd be paying an installer full price to do a pretty simple job. But if I install the alarm correctly on my own, then any defect in the alarm parts (which I've heard a lot of) falls right into my lap and I have no way to get a replacement part under warranty. So what should I do? These alarm warrantys seem very unfair as they basically assume that the parts themselves are infallible and the only way that the alarm will fail is from improper installation.

Do what most folks do. Just buy it off ebay and install the damn thing and don't worry about it, or, buy an alarm from a company that supports end-users like Crimestopper. Ironically, I have fixed dealer installed compustars with replacememnt units like autopage and crimestopper since some end-users have gotten fed up with poor compustar quality and dealer warranty BS like $40 to remove the brain, or come back 3rd wednesday on the 4th week of a full moon when we're not busy, call first.

Lots of companies have silent warranties. For e.g. pioneer will fix their avic's from end users, yet, they will not support an internet purchase. I can tell you I have called autopage and compustar as an end-user and still received service and tech support. Companies are slowly starting to see the light where they are losing business to savvy clients who shop around to companies who cater to them. A simple example is DEI who makes dealer support viper alarm, now makes BOA which is sold to the end user in places like target and walmart. It is your call..

Sad little man......what ever you do, DON"T put in a crimestopper. I have a customer at the shop, who had an alarm put in a year and a half ago, she lost one of her transmitters and the other has a broken button. I "tried" to order new transmitters.....they are DISCONTINUED...a year and a half. They have offered to "repair" the one transmitter. WoW, lots of help. This lady shares her car with her daughter, one transmitter just don't cut it.

Suck it up and find a local shop that will "break the rules" and sell you a piece over the counter. If your gonna have a problem with anything, it will likely be with something purchased on e-bay.

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All I got to say is stay away from AsainWolf (from experience). The 2009 FM 2 (aka POS Skytek Galaxy 5100) came to me and out of the box the light output was kicking a whopping .3 volts on a DMM. The ouput was shot. I worked aruond it with a relay switching indenpendant 12v source and wired to siren output. Asian Wolf warranty is BS too "Have any shop install it... we will cover it and replace it even if the tech fries the brain"..."Warranty void if not installed by professional shop,,,,we don't care if your friend works for NASA" (it actually says these. Never ever deal with Asain Wolf, they just sell the stuff Skytek and other vendors throw in the trash (and Skytek is not too high on my list to beging with). If you buy e-bay get something nice...Autopage or Audiovox...

I'm seriosuly looking at legal options (cause I'm pissed)...I know lawyers take warranty issues and lemon law cases and you don't pay a dime...we'll see if they'd be willing to take on some BS e-bay seller.

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(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).
(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.
(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

I was planning to buy a compustar from an online vendor I found.

Cool - compustar is good, who is the vendor?

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(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).
(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.
(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

www.theinstallationshop.com Looks ok. *shrug

Looks like a solid vendor:

Number of complaints processed by the BBB in last 36 Months: 0
Number of complaints processed by the BBB in last 12 months: 0

They've joined BBB in 2001 and have 0 complaints in 3 years (it might even be 4 based on their record).

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(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).
(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.
(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

Ah, thanks for that. Good to know!

If you go with the Compustar make sure you get the 900 FM or the 8000 series unit. Great system, easy to install and range like no other.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

the thing i find about warranty if your doing it yourself and competant you don't need it.

here my thinking on it.

an alarm installed with warranty for e.g. might cost $500

same alarm over the counter might cost half price or less.

my thinking is if the install is good and it goes bad just replace it.

if its a decent unit to start with you'll save money if it goes bad down the line and you replace it you'll break even.. as long as the install is good its very unlikely that 1 unit will go bad let alone 2.

thats one way of reasoning it.

also i've been installing some scytek alarms over the last couple of month with no problems as of yet. they seem to me like a decent system. as long as your supplier is good.

I hear ya Powermyster. I just got screwed cause I got it from some rip off company like Asian Wolf. Clearley these are units Skytek rejected in QA and Asian Wolf rebadges them.

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(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).
(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.
(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

Probably do. not too keen on rebadged especially when its not that much cheaper anyway

I thought compustar was NOT supposed to be sold on line.....I hate poeple that do this. Makes it VERY HARD for a small, indepedant, struggling, self employed, flyin solo, playin BY THE RULES business man, make a dollar.

DEI is the same....they "protect" their retailers. Then some sleeze finds a way to sell the stuff on line. They sell it, turn their backs....and off to the bank they go. Man I tell ya!!!!!

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i know where your coming from but what about the people that wanna do it themselves and lets face it there is alot of them. do they not deserve good security too.

you have an advantage over them you can provide warranty that online dealers can't provide. some people prefere that.

i would says only about 5 percent of people that want alarms can do it themselves. there is alot of people out there that have to go to a shop. because they can't do it themselves. this is your market. and local car dealers..

I don't mean to agrue with you but your business shouldn't suffer much from online retailers.

as a matter of fact i've installed alarms for people that have bought online. but i tell them that i can't stand over the system and they accept that..

what i was saying above about warranty only works out if you do it yourself on your own car.

e.g. if i buy compustar cheap online and do it for somebody. i'm gonna charge them. more than likely not too far off what you would charge as a registered dealer but i could offer no warranty and you can.

what i was saying only works if your doing your own car you will pay half price or less.

KarTuneMan - the place he was looking at was selling this for $299 so it is not cheap. As far of "selling and turning their backs" that is just BS. The vendor he was looking at has had 0 (let me say it again 0) complaints filed with BBB in the last 36 months (that is 3 years). They would not have this record if they turned their back on people. I bet Compustart does not have even 1 regular dealer who has not had 1 complaint with BBB in the last 3 years. Don't knock down an Internet dealer for being inovative unless you can match his record (and you'll be hard pressed to match this stelar record).

KarTuneMan: I support anyone who has a small business (I would like to have a car shop in the future) but I got to be fair and support honest Internet dealers.

In most states it is illegal to place these kind of limitations. It is like the the Magnus-Moss warranty laws. If I have a car and put a K&N filter and blow the engine up you (the car maker) have to prove that is what caused the damage. The warranty is full of BS to try to discourage DIY installers but I'll be damned if it does not say "This warranty gives you specific legal rights".

Here is a piece of the CompuStar warranty:

"Some states do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty will last or the exclusion or limitation on how long an implied warranty will last or the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights, which vary State to State."

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(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).
(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.
(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

KarTuneMan, I couldn't disagree more with your argument. Essentially what alarm companies like DEI do is the same idea as if the dealership I work at would be the only place to buy oil and an oil filter for your vehicle. Everyone would have to bring their cars to us because no one could do oil changes at home on their own. Sure, we'd get tons of work, but it's not fair at all to the customer. Not selling your merchandise directly to customers that have the knowledge and skills to do their own installation isn't protecting your retailers. Guess what, you have a service (installing alarms) that I don't want or need. That's simply too bad for you. But on the upside there are ten more people behind me that can't install their own alarm that need you to. There's a fine line between protecting your retailers and creating a monopoly. If you're an honest business man that can't make a dollar then perhaps you've just made a mistake with your business. But it's not because people are selling alarm units out from under you. By that logic it's amazing a garage makes any money at all. Hey, auto parts stores sell every part you can have installed at a garage right to the customer!

Anyway, on the topic of alarms, I was planning on going with the 2WSS-A because I've heard it gets good range.

Would you guys go with the 2WSS-A or the 2W900FM? I've been hearing a lot of 2WSS-A problems on here, but range on the remote is a big deal for me.

2 things, first DEI has 3 lines they sell to "wholesalers" and the public, Hornet, Boa, and Valet. Second, it is their company and choose to operate however they want. It is protecting their dealers by only allowing them to sell their product. Unless you are in the industry you don't really understand how much the internet has devastated certain areas of 12V merchandise. DEI is combatting unauthorized sales of their equipment by not offering a warranty on equipment not SOLD and INSTALLED by their dealers. Thus promoting sales through their authorized dealers as opposed to the moron on the internet getting a batch of alarms and undercutting authorized dealers.

Think of it this way, a guy buys an engine out of a junkyard, screws up installing it, then takes it to the dealership and demands it to be fixed under warranty. Same concept.

With all that being out of the way, alarm warranties for product don't really get brought up that often. Most issues are install or connection related as opposed to product related. If you are competent to install then don't worry about it. With that being said I know a ton of mechanics that don't know jack shhh about electrical, so be damn sure you know what you are doing on that end of the spectrum.

Agree with the first part of the post or not it is up to you. It also is the way it is.

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Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.

I see what you're saying about protecting the dealers. Perhaps then authorized dealers should be allowed to sell the units without installing them. They make the money on selling the alarm, but not on installing if the customer can do it themselves. That I think would be reasonable. As far as installing goes. I'm not clueless about auto electrics, and I don't claim to know as much as professional installers do. But I have enough knowledge to do things right if I take my time while installing it. I basically just want to save some money and have the alarm installed with the same care I do everything with on my own vehicle.

The contract the dealer sings with DEI prevents them from selling without installation. This also prevents authorized dealers from selling online.

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Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.

Compustar:

My point is the warranty for the PRODUCT and should not differ based on who buys it, from where and who installs it. The engine analogy doesn't fit IMO. Compustar makes the alarm (this being your engine)...if it is defective they need to fix it no matter where you get it from. After all it is the same alarm (your not buying a different engine) regardless if it is E-bay or a Compustar dealer. I'm glad to see that a lot of states protect the buyer (even speaking to so degree of accidental damage).

Another issue is that there is no stadardize across the board system of testing the dealers to make sure that even they know what they are doing. I know most delers are good but we hear a lot about techs who have 3 years of experience and use T-taps on wires and such.

If they want to limit warranty, no problem, create 2 products one for consumer (and offer no warranty to the consumer product) and one for the dealer. Obviously there will have to be a considerable price reduction to the consumer version since the company does not have the overhead on this product.

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(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).
(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.
(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

us_test wrote:

Compustar:

"Some states do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty will last or the exclusion or limitation on how long an implied warranty will last or the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights, which vary State to State."

Not to debate but a question. In DEI's case there is no warranty, implied or otherwise, if bought through an unauthorized source. If Compustar has the same type of statement/limitations (they are not big in AZ so I don't have much experience with them), is the warranty statement void? I am no lawyer, but I play one on the internet.

Again DEI has 3 lines available to the public as stated before. Also dealing with repairs it is more often install/connection related to problems as opposed to actual equipment failure.

As far as the engine analogy, it was more along the lines of you bought a product somewhere that the manufacturer doesn't allow to be sold, installed it yourself, it either didn't work or was damaged during install, and then you try to get warranty to repair/replace. The whole engine part was because he was a mechanic and probably has had someone try something stupid like that to him or his shop. The other part to this is that the manufacturer cannot guarantee the condition of the alarm if buying from an unauthorized seller. For all they know it could be b-stock or refurbished gear which carries little to no warranty. There is no way to guarantee what the seller is selling/shipping the consumer.

PS. Again, warranty on product is actually rarely used on quality equipment(DEI 555R/L excluded, about the only faulty piece I have seen from DEI on more then 1 ocassion). As long as you are competent and install the alarm correctly this should be a minor issue. If it is more of an issue then you would like then I would recommend you stay away from brands that have rigid guidelines concerning their warranty process.

PSS. Sorry for the novel. This is actually turning into an intellectual discussion, which is kinda rare here(think audiobahn, sony, bose, AVIC, etc...).

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Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.

The way I understand it is as follows :

incidental
adjective

Not part of the real or essential nature of a thing:

adscititious, adventitious, supervenient.

So if an internet dealer is incidentally selling the car alarm over the Internet the consumer still has a warrany because they are protected by state laws. The selling method is incidental, it is just that a method, it is not part of the real or essential nature of the thing (the selling method is not a part of the alarm it is a distribution method).

con·se·quen·tial
adj.

Following as an effect, result, or conclusion; consequent.

So I can cross a few wires on the alarm fry it and some states will still protect my warranty

Section 108 of the FEDERAL Magnuson-Moss warranty act prevents "Tie-in" agreements.

"Tie-In Sales" Provisions
Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.

In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.

I think the companies use this piece here below to try to get away with voiding consumer warranty. But an alarm is still a tnagible property used for personal use so it would be covered.

Finally, the Act does not apply to warranties on products sold for resale or for commercial purposes. The Act covers only warranties on consumer products. This means that only warranties on tangible property normally used for personal, family, or household purposes are covered. (This includes property attached to or installed on real property.) Note that applicability of the Act to a particular product does not, however, depend upon how an individual buyer will use it.

Got my info from here: https://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm#understanding

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(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).
(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.
(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

bobk - read up on the subject a bit more. I'm sorry I forgot that DEI was above the law (silly me).

I can prove my facts with research, can you?

What they do is a "tie-in" agreement (buy from dealer or no warranty). "They have the right to do that" maybe in China but not in the US. posted_image

It is so simple I don't see how you don't get it. The law even protects you from incidental damage (I don't thik that is fair but this is the way it is). Please, please come back with some evidence and links to support your claim (I doubt that you can).

Perhaps you know more than the Federal Trade Commission about warranty laws (after all what do they know).
I like your posts you try to knock me but you don't have any backing, no facts, nothing, just empty letters you
hit on your keyboard.

I was personally affected by this issue when I purchased an alarm from Asian Wolf which came partially defective out of the box. So I'm doing the research, I don't type empty token words just because I can type on the keyboard. Everything I said was researched and backed up with evidence galore.

The companies can and will write whatever they want in their warranty (to their advantage of course) and they can do that. They will however loose when it comes to going up against the warranty laws.

What they do (buy from a dealer otherwise the warranty is void). Is like Ford selling "You can only buy a FORD from a FORD certfified dealership".

I think a lot of this is supported by Stereo Shops also. It is the fear that one day eveyone in the world will install heir own alarm and they'll go out of business. I hope one day to have a shop but I will NEVER act scared like some shop owners do, scared of people doing their own installs and them going out of business. If your shop was good you wouldn't have to worry about a few DIY installlers (well I guess most shop owners are insecure and scared of this).

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(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).
(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.
(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

bobk]T wrote:

ke DEI to court and see who wins. Post the results for all to see good or bad, I am betting it will be bad.

. I agree 100% that the outcome would be bad if I took DEI to court for a Skytek Galaxy 5100 rebranded FM 2009 v2 alarm sold to me by AsianWolf. posted_image

LOL

I was speaking of warranties in general regardless of companies. Take for example the bold and BS statement Asian Wolf makes when they say they'll void the warranty if it is not installed by a shop (even if your friend which works at NASA does the install) but they'll cover it if a shop does it and fries the brain (they actually say fries the brain....this is in bold letters). In that case why not cover it even if someone does their own install? Do they think that the chances of a shop making a mistake are lower? Perhaps....but the odds are not that much higher...(with all the T-Taps stories I hear from friends who have had their alarms done shops)...

Most of the DIY installer does research and asks questions from experts (like the ones on this site)...This site is a great resource for 12V....Asian Wolf does target the DIY installer here is why: they have a basic alarm install tutorial (why would you have this.....a security installer knows this stuff in their sleep (the basics)....then they have a link to the12volt.com (again why....most shops have DirecTech or Omega Disk or whatever you use for wiring information on cars).

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(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).
(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.
(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

Try not to drink before posting...half the stuff you say makes no sense at all (take DEI to court when I never said anything of that nature...I was mearley comenting on their warranty.

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(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).
(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.
(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

So, uh, is the 2WSS-A a solid system or should I look at their others? posted_image

Just buy an autopage RS-855... Compustar always starts fights.. lol j/k

rs-855 is a nice unit...I kick myslelf for not buying it....good luck

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(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).
(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.
(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

do compnays allowe tere products to be service that are not in warranty. lets just use DEI for an example.
say bought any besides a dealer and it was not workign for waht ever reason it may be. also not saying it was due to bad installer, just is was broke.
could you send it back to DEI or who ever and have it paid to be fixed.
just a thoght.

Just out of curiosity would the "dealer inspection for removal" cost more than the alarm itself?

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(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).
(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.
(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

Not bad. DEI makes a solid product and the life time warranty is a nice bonus.

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(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).
(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.
(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

transshipping is the evil of the future. It will be the downfall of aftermarket electronics.

All the knowledgeable, trained, and hard working shops and installers will begin to cease to exist because they can't keep the doors open by matching transhipped online prices.
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I think that one of the things people who buy from unauthorized transhippers don't see is that some of the major unauthorized internet sellers have the ability to purchase a hundred thousand dollars and sometimes even much more at a time and they are willing to sell that in high volume for only a couple of dollars profit per item in order to make money fast. If you only make $2.00 per item but you sell 20,000 of them in a month then that was still a pretty good investment to them.

They don't realize or care that they are destroying countless businesses who operate on much smaller scales. Most dealers can't buy a product and ship it for the prices often found on the internet. I don't mean that as a euphamism - I mean it literally.

Trans-shipping has always been a problem, but it never had the impact on retail sales that unauthorized selling on the internet (by the same people or same type people as the trans-shippers were) that the internet has had.

It's great for customers to be able to get a good deal on product. But not to the detriment of the company who builds the product, and their business partners who stock, sell, install, and promote those products - only for someone else to ride their coat-tails and make a quick profit. Manufacturers still rely on brick and mortar shops throughout the US and the rest of the world for the vast majority of their total sales. The internet pricing drives the cost of the product down to a point that it is not logical for a dealer to stock or carry it in many instances - and the net result is that the manufacturers total sales begin to Drop - making said company less profitable and with time can jeopardize their ability to continue operating.

There are a lot of factors that play into it, but there is no question about it that people selling for insanely low profit margins are hurting our industry. People wonder why the shows aren't as big as they used to be, not as many people compete, manufacturers don't give out product and free stuff like they used to, and the list goes on and on. All of it has been on a downward trend which believe it or not has corresponded with profit margins over the years. If you as a consumer want a thriving industry with all of the shows, manufacturer support, and all the other fun stuff that we used to have in this business - then you need to think about who you are doing business with and why.

To an extent I'll agree and say that yes, dealers have to plan their business model around these market conditions in order to stay in business and stay profitable. But a lot of us in this business are here to make a little money and enjoy what we do. But there is no fun having your balls cut off by someone willing to sell an amplifier for $427.00 online that costs the dealer $415.00 to purchase then having the "internet savvy" customer rub your face in what other people are doing.

Just my 2 cents - take them for what they are worth.

Originally posted by:
Chris Dilbeck
Premier Marketing

you know i saw this topic and thought i could get educated on warranty issues for alarms......but after reading 4 pages of posts...all i read was some drama....and now my freakin lunch is over...thanks guys....lol

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steve

In California, regardless of what a manufacture things the consumer is protected.

1792.3. No implied warranty of merchantability and, where applicable, no implied warranty of fitness shall be waived, except in the case of a sale of consumer goods on an "as is" or "with all faults" basis where the provisions of this chapter affecting "as is"
or "with all faults" sales are strictly complied with.

Just because a manufacture states a warranty claim does not mean its actually legal in all states. One would think that DEI, based in California would write there warranties according to California requirements.

Heres an of topic example that I experienced a few years back regarding warranties in California. (as a manufacture myself I have some insight) I bought a Charbroil bbq at Costco. It cost $500.00+ back in 97'. The burner assembly had a five year warranty. The burner went out at 4yr 8months. Called Charbroil. My intention was to have them send me a new burner assembly. BBQ was discontinued and they had no more parts for it. Then they said well give you a coupon good for 50% any BBQ purchase. I said, not in California you won't. Your going to buy back this thing because your violating a varity of consumer protection laws. One, not keeping parts for 4-7 years on warranty items, after discontinueing the line. I threw the BBQ in pieces in my truck and wheeled it back into Costco. (you should have seen the faces of all the other people in the return line when I wheeled that thing in) No one knew what to do until the Store manager came to the counter. He wanted to prorate the return. I said no your not, because I had the warranty info right infront of me. He says, well we don't want to take advantage of our vendors, especially after four plus years of use. My reply, screw the vendor. If you don't give me a full refund, all take Costco, and Charbroil to court and file a formal complaint with the Calif. Dept of Consumer affairs. It was amazing how fast 500+ dollars ended up in my hand, because he knew that i was right.

(c) Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by Commission
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if—
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.

OhioMike1101 wrote:

(c) Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by Commission
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if—
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.

In English please posted_image

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

It means that the company can apply for a waiver to say that the product will only function right if installed by a dealer. They have to get a waiver since "tie-in" agreements are illegal (and this would be a blatant case of it).

I'd like to be fair and will list this point even though it does not support my main view on the issue.

From Magnuson-moss Warranty Act:

"Although tie-in sales provisions generally are not allowed, you can include such a provision in your warranty if you can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the FTC that your product will not work properly without a specified item or service. If you believe that this is the case, you should contact the warranty staff of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection for information on how to apply for a waiver of the tie-in sales prohibition."

I think that this should work in reverse order to. The consumer can demonstrate that he can install an alarm and his warranty should be valid. I don't think the alarm copanies can prove effectiveley that the dealer has more resources than the consumer. Let's list them:

Dimm, solder, wire, relay, etc (dealer and consumer can get these).

Technical wiring diagram (dealer has it consumer can purchase this online for $3.99 or look it up on 12volt.com)

Expert knowledge (dealer has it....consumer has access to hundreds of car security pros on the 12volt.com).

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(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).
(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.
(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).

Good thing I read through this post. Nearly miss some good stuff in here. Wow, gone for a week and everyone’s a lawyer. posted_image

Where have all the installer gone? Are you guys contemplating on a career change? Anyhow, on a serious notes, I don’t think most of good point being made here on warranty will applied unless you are thick skin and as tough as some of the poster say they are. IMO, I think in the end if you are persistent about it, you will probably get it your way. I am no lawyer, but I do hold my background in economics. Between the two evils I will probably choose economics. I for one love a completive market. Many sellers by definition and they will come on the market until it reaches the point where the profits margin are all squeeze out of it. At a lost some seller will get out and the cycle will start all over. Greater production efficiency and cheaper good for the consumer. What’s not good to like about that!

I know there are lots of DIY on this broad. I can see it from their view about saving a few dollars and getting the satisfaction of installing it themselves. Personally, I would suggest staying away from dealer only product like “DEI, Compustar, Astroflex, Autostart and the likes.” They are nothing but trouble if you don’t know what you are doing in terms of your technical skills of getting it to work. These products don’t FAIL AT ALL when it’s install by someone who has great technical skill. That’s my personal opinion because 99% of the time when I encounter these product to fail is because of an installer error. If you like these product and want to install them yourself buy it from a place that can back you up for your silly mistake. Otherwise, I would say buying it from a big box store is the way to go if you are a weekend installer. Up here we call it Canadian Tire. I am not sure what the equivalent of that would be in the south. Buy it on weekend; if it doesn’t work return it Monday. After burning a few unit and you still haven’t got it to work then you can pay someone to put it. If you guys understand the concept of OPPORTUNITY COST you will choose the advice that I have suggested.

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Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. posted_image

thepencil - I hear you and agree.

This has been one hot topic (46 replies and 703 views). I like you aproach when you say buy from Big Box because you can return it.

This concept is similar to techs who start at BigBox and some make a few mistakes and fry a few things. You can get away with it at a big box more so then an independent shop (were they normally higher people with some experience).

I did some research and concluded that the reason manufacteurs can deny warranty to consumer is because they've obtain a waiver and demonstrated that the product will not function properley unless install by a dealer (so they say). I disagree with this approach because it has a lot of BS in it.

We're all going to be lawyers soon posted_image ....You need to be one just to make sense of the warranty lingo ("The party of the first party wil offer but no limit, deny but not imply, sigh but not cry, adjudecate and diferentiate, create and recuperate a "warranty" for the consumer, who will be reffered as a "user" but not abuser, convey but not relay, limit but not restrict...") LOL

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(1) Kenwood Excelon Head Unit KDC-X589 (24 bit Burr Brown DAC, 3 X 4 volt RCA).
(1) RF Punch 250A2 - running the components.
(1) Hifonics 6.5" Atlas Components (18db crossovers).