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professional install or not?

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=6620
Printed Date: July 03, 2025 at 11:29 AM


Topic: professional install or not?

Posted By: Horkus
Subject: professional install or not?
Date Posted: December 12, 2002 at 10:16 PM

Hi you Pros out there, generally how long does it take you to install an alarm system that includes P door lock, Park lights, siren??

Also when you connect or interface your alarm system to the vehicle, what method connection do you guys use to be considered life time gureentee quality?

Do you cut the factory wire then crimp? or jsut strip the insulation wrap then hold it with E tape? or cut the factory wires solder then heat shrink? or strip insulation solder  then E tape it???

Wahts the most popular method used?

especially the MECP ppl whcih way did they teach you??

Thanks!




Replies:

Posted By: JWorm
Date Posted: December 12, 2002 at 10:21 PM
My shop does the following: strip insulation solder  then E tape it
Lifetime guarentee parts and labor. About 3 hours for an alarm, but varies on the type of car.




Posted By: Horkus
Date Posted: December 12, 2002 at 10:22 PM
thanks J worm

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I can smoke your wires for free!!!




Posted By: diabloed
Date Posted: December 12, 2002 at 10:26 PM
I'm sure alot of people were all taught different. MECP we just used t-taps. the shop i work at now we strip back, split the wire, intertwine the "spliced" wire and use zip-ties and e-tape. Just my .02 cent worth




Posted By: Horkus
Date Posted: December 12, 2002 at 10:30 PM

WTF????

MECP uses those mickey mouse T-tap methods???

See I live in vencouver and I'll never have a chance to fly to phonex or toronto for that school, so I am figuring out the best way to install alarms and stereos for ppl and for myself.



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I can smoke your wires for free!!!




Posted By: SOUND PRESSURE
Date Posted: December 12, 2002 at 11:28 PM
Solder and tape or heat shrink(solid connection)

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Sound Pressure

You know you have the right amount of pressure when your eyes start to water! Now you've got Juice!




Posted By: 10nesne1
Date Posted: December 12, 2002 at 11:58 PM
Horkus, if you are so great.  What do you use to install alarms and car audio?  what connections do you think is the best?  Which shop do you work on or your own gargage at home????




Posted By: Horkus
Date Posted: December 13, 2002 at 6:08 AM

Well I of course know that soldering is the best solid connections and most reiable. I dun work for any shop, alarm inst   is only my hobbie that I do at home. I work for an aircraft conpany and electrical connections and mods has to be 100% quality and reliable and we actually uses a Gel type tube which has a little bit of solder and waxy plastic stuff inside then when I uses a heat gun solder melts first inside then the plastice stuff and makes a sealed and solid connection. thats the best stuff I use on my car and some of my buddies car.

but one piece of the Gel tubes are Approx $2US each!



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I can smoke your wires for free!!!




Posted By: chasesaccessori
Date Posted: December 13, 2002 at 7:33 AM

I think you will find that everyone does someting different.  For enstance, I use but connectors and e-tape and zips and have never ever had a job come back with installation problems unless it was a wrong connection type.

I personally don't beleave in t-taps.  Stripping wires and soldering takes time and when you have other installers your watching after, I don't want to take the risk of fire, burns, property damage, from one of my installers getting distracted.

Installation time varies upon what car and what you are doing to it.  Labor rates start at $100 and goes up from there.  Thats basing it on a $30/hour labor rate, giving the installer roughly 3 hours to do the install before you start loosing money on the install.  Generally I add $30 for every Item added to the install.  IE: Door lock actuators, hood or trunk pins, etc..

Above all else QC your work before you put the car completely back together.  Thats my policy.  My installers have to have a different installer or me check it out for neatness, connections, operation, and for damage.



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(owner/installer)
Chase's Accessories
Ridgecrest, CA
in business since 92




Posted By: TTopStang
Date Posted: December 14, 2002 at 2:49 PM

Horkus, what are these gel tubes officially called? I was curious as to what they look like and how effective they work. Maybe I'll pick up a few to try them out.

I normally just do audio installs for hobby and friends. In which case I use t taps with a drop of dielectric grease inside the crimp connectors. The grease keeps moisture out and helps the connection. I use t taps so that way I can revert back to the OEM install by simply removing the connectors from the t tap (does that make sense?). I do this for audio  because we're always upgrading so it's a matter of pulling apart a connector and plugging in a new one; 4 seconds and your done. If it’s going to sit a while, I’ll also wrap with e-tape. That’s my reasoning and I know some people are cringing in their seats reading this but this is why we have opinions and we all use what works for us. By the way, I’m only reading in the Security forums trying to decide which alarm to get and whether to install it myself. So don’t mind me.





Posted By: jeepcj92
Date Posted: December 14, 2002 at 4:36 PM

I use side by side taps.  They are similar to the T taps... mabye thats what were all talking about any how.  When I install with the taps I set them up and crimp.. then tug wires to make sure od a good connectiong, then tape the two wires together, and the eitire connector.  the major reson I like useing them is for the ease of removal and least amount of impact on the factory wireing.  Generally what I have seen when these fail is somone who didn't use the right tap for the right guage of wire.  I agree that soldering is the best quality connection, but when properly done I have confidence in the taps.  I've had 4 installs set up with taps for over a year and had no problems.  But I just do installs for friends and family... I could also see where if I had a businesss and was doing multiple installs a week were there would be a large cost savings with solder and tape, vs the taps. 

just my $.02

-Jeff





Posted By: Horkus
Date Posted: December 15, 2002 at 10:35 AM
Quote: Originally posted by TTopStang on December?4,?002

Horkus, what are these gel tubes officially called? I was curious as to what they look like and how effective they work. Maybe I'll pick up a few to try them out.

I normally just do audio installs for hobby and friends. In which case I use t taps with a drop of dielectric grease inside the crimp connectors. The grease keeps moisture out and helps the connection. I use t taps so that way I can revert back to the OEM install by simply removing the connectors from the t tap (does that make sense?). I do this for audio  because we're always upgrading so it's a matter of pulling apart a connector and plugging in a new one; 4 seconds and your done. If it’s going to sit a while, I’ll also wrap with e-tape. That’s my reasoning and I know some people are cringing in their seats reading this but this is why we have opinions and we all use what works for us. By the way, I’m only reading in the Security forums trying to decide which alarm to get and whether to install it myself. So don’t mind me.


Ttopstang, thanks for shareing your experiences.

THose gel tubesare called soldering sleeves. I used then in Aircraft navigations connections most of the time, it actually will work out perfect for mobile radio installation and alrms especially when dealing with splices and stuff like that!

go to this site and order it there!

https://www.radialljerrik.com/solderingsleeves3.htm





Posted By: SnomanF150
Date Posted: December 15, 2002 at 8:42 PM
Dean, couldnt' have said it better myself..  Same situation here as you have..

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George

David's Car Stereo

Baton Rouge, LA




Posted By: webguy
Date Posted: December 15, 2002 at 9:19 PM
I'm just hiding out and watching............

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Clean tools = Clean work!




Posted By: Horkus
Date Posted: December 15, 2002 at 10:11 PM

for your shop installers, how many ppl work on 1 car for each installation?

I am talking about like pro job like install an alarm  that you can't find the alarm by looking underneath the dash!, how long does it take?



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I can smoke your wires for free!!!




Posted By: webguy
Date Posted: December 15, 2002 at 10:34 PM

Typically. usually only one person needs to do the alarm, but it is nice to have someone mount the siren and run the wires inside for you, while your buried under the dash. The average install w/door locks and trunk pop will take 2-3 hours for a really clean job, between interruptions, answering the phone, talking to customers, or having someone asking you questions all the while you're trying to work.

Concealing an alarm to that extreme is not always practical, especially if there is the need to troubleshoot it, or upgrade to more accessories. If you are talking about hiding the brain away from unauthorized prying eyes, well, if they get that far into your vehicle, your probably gonna loose it and/or your stuff anyhow.

I probably shouldn't be telling this, but - - With 90% of the alarms on the market today, to defeat them, all you need to do is get inside the car, locate the valet/disarm switch, stick a jumper wire (paper clip works good) in the fuse panel from a constant hot fuse to an ignition fuse, powering the ignition circuit, then press (or flip) the valet/disarm switch.

How long would that take? Anyone paranoid now............

LESSON: Don't make the valet/disarm switch easy to find.............



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Clean tools = Clean work!




Posted By: Horkus
Date Posted: December 15, 2002 at 10:54 PM

So inorder to make a clean neat tidy alarm install, do you guys actually cut every wire to make it fit perfect to route the alrm wires neatly?

Becasue I found it very diffiicult to keep the wire bundle neat!!



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I can smoke your wires for free!!!




Posted By: webguy
Date Posted: December 15, 2002 at 10:55 PM
Yep! But it takes practice and it comes after doing enough of them. You get used to a certain procedure and it gets to be an automatic thing. Prewiring your alarm wiring loom and sensors on the bench helps a lot too. Then you can just get in the car, mount everything first and run your wires to the area where your brain will be, with a few inches of slack and make all your connections at once, instead of connecting each piece as you install it.  The essence of speed is to cut down on the number of times you have to keep picking up your crimpers.....Plan ahead.

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Clean tools = Clean work!




Posted By: Horkus
Date Posted: December 15, 2002 at 10:58 PM

So webguy how many yrs have you been in this 12v industry for?

Are you a shop owner or an employee in a car audio shop?



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I can smoke your wires for free!!!




Posted By: webguy
Date Posted: December 15, 2002 at 11:10 PM

I was inducted in 1982. Worked in several shops around Orange County, CA. Been out of the business for a couple of years now, designing and being a web master for a couple of sites. But I have been thinkoing about coming back, not as an installer (the eyes and the back won't allow it) but probably as a rep or something of that nature. Not sure yet. But, that was how I found this site a few days ago when I decided to see what was up on the Internet. Now, it seems like I got stuck in this forum and can't get out (Twilight Zone theme playing in the background, sweat running down his brow, smoke coming from the keyboard....)

If you want a bit of history go check out my post at: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=1&TopicID=6589&PagePosition=2#thread and where I signed the Guestbook. Might make for some interesting reading for anyone in the So Cal area.



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Clean tools = Clean work!




Posted By: Horkus
Date Posted: December 15, 2002 at 11:17 PM
Thats great, Its interesting to know that you've been in so many different kinds of career.

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I can smoke your wires for free!!!




Posted By: webguy
Date Posted: December 15, 2002 at 11:26 PM

Hmm! I only mentioned two different careers, although it's been three. But I am sensing my mortality.......enough said. Well, this thread topic has gone off course.............See ya's all tomorrow, I'm sure! Good Night and Merry Xmas to all.

God, I need to get a life!



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Clean tools = Clean work!




Posted By: Phatmex
Date Posted: December 16, 2002 at 12:59 AM
On all my personal installs, I would either mount the valet switch inside the locked glove box (at least a little harder to get to) or just take it out after programming.  On my current alarm, you can program it with a number (for example 24) so that to deactivate your alarm you would turn on the ignition, hit the switch 2 times, turn off, turn on, hit it 4 times, then turn off and it deactivates.  That way even though they find the switch, it doesn't do them any good.




Posted By: chriseet1
Date Posted: December 16, 2002 at 4:16 AM

I have been in college for 10 years and have 5 electronics degrees. Solder and shrink is the best BUT!!!!!!! The factory doesn’t even to that!!! Sad really. BUTT type connectors are the same as the factory connections. Using a hot iron is not smart inside the car so many things can go wrong. THEN AGAIN T-TAPS MAKE BAD CONNECTIONS. So do scotch locks, they are cut type connections. Why are they bad???? Because the surface area for the connection is small and when that small area gets corroded the connection goes bad.!!! BUTTS ARE THE BEST FOR AUTOMOTIVE APS..

 

Chris Fraser installing since 1985 I have an EET degree “knowledge is power”     





Posted By: webguy
Date Posted: December 16, 2002 at 10:09 AM
To Phatmex: That's whats nice about the Plain View Coded Switch.

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Clean tools = Clean work!




Posted By: jimmythegreat1
Date Posted: December 16, 2002 at 12:54 PM

I have found that you can generally remove the gauges and use some really good double sided tape and mount the sillie thing to the dash( on the inside of corse silly) thiere will be no way in most cars to even reach the brain from underneath adds about 30 min. to most of my installs.... looks real clean though...

I usually charge about 50 dollars for the extra work, I also like the t-taps makes it easier to reach them darn hard spots with clumpy hands   hehehe...






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