Arctic Start/Compustar 2W900FMAS Problem

I have a Arctic Start/Compustar RT2W900FMAS and was wondering if someone could help me out with a couple problem I'm having with it.

I've installed the majority of it and everything works except that if the alarm is armed, and I try to remote start it will attempt to start 3 times and then nothing. It doesn't give me any parking light flash to signal a problem so I don't know what is wrong.

If the car isn't armed it will start fine, parking lights work also. I've made my own bypass for the passlock and that works fine. I had it in a previous unit and had no problems.

Now another thing that is confusing is it's in a 98 Pontiac Sunfire 2 door and I have negative pulse door locks. With the unit it has 2 wires a blue wire that is the (+) lock output that doubles as a (-) unlock output. Then there is a blue/black wire that is (-)lock output and doubles as a (+) unlock output. How it can double as both I have no idea. Can someone enlighten me.

I only have the blue wire hooked I think, and the door locks and everything work. What am I suppose to do with the other wire coming off the brain.

Also, if I remote start the car and use the key and open my door the car continues to run. It should shut off to my understanding. The door triggers work as if I query it when my door is open/closed it will show it.

So if anybody can help me out, I would appreciate it.

Thanks

starter kill relay is backwards

Thank you I will look into that.

Do you know anything about the other problems that I can check? I noticed during programming options there is a option where it will lock the doors when you start your car with a key and then unlock when you take the key out of the ignition. It will send the unlock pulse, but not the lock.

Ok so my car wires are power lock = light blue, and power unlock = white.

The brain is Blue = + lock output - unlock output and the blue/black = - lock output and + unlock output.

I've connected the blue wire from the brain to my light blue, and the blue/black wire to my white wire.

The thing I don't get is my doors work fine. When I arm the alarm the doors lock, disarm and doors unlock. So the problem might be elsewhere but I do have the IGN controller door locks turned on in programming, and it will only unlock doors upon taking key out of ignition. It won't lock the doors when starting.

Will the starter kill hooked up backwards affect opening the door and not having it kill on a remote start? Opening the hood will kill it.

For the ignition controlled door locks, do you have to put the car in gear before the doors lock? I can't figure out why it won't lock, but it will send the unlock pulse when I turn the car off and take the key out.

There are a couple of things here that doesn't make sense. First off, you didn't tell us if this was a manual or automatic vehicle. From what you wrote so far, it seems that it's an automatic, but you mentioned something about the car keeps running after you take the key out ?

If you engaged the TURBO mode the vehicle will stay running all the time after you remove the key from the key cylinder. If this is a manual, then you have to go through a sequence in order for you to get into ready mode for the remote starter to work after you leave the vehicle.

With the door locks, I have never seen a Compustar unit with alternating polarity doors locks before. This must be new in the last couple of months. Regardless, you MAY need relays for the Sunfire if they work intermittently and the IGN controlled door locks ( if manal transmission ) will work when you start the vehicle with the key & release the hand brake.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

Sorry for the confusion.

Ok the car is automatic. The bit about the car running after taking the key out I meant that the car does shut off but there is a feature for ignition controlled door locks. So you know you start the car with a key and it will lock the doors, and when you turn the car off (which it does just fine) and take the key out of the ignition it will unlock the doors. The problem is it will unlock them but it won't lock them. Does that make sense?

Now with the door locks I wired in 2 relays and plugged one of the wires from the brain into there. My lock/arm and unlock/disarm work perfectly fine when I push the button 1 on the remote. So I'm pretty sure they are hooked up fine, but I just can't figure out the problem above. It won't send the pulse for lock, but yet it will if I push the button.

I'm not sure if the compustar has alternating polarity locks. But reading it thats what it comes accross as to me. I don't see how it can double as both, that does not make any sense to me. I only have the blue wire (I think) hooked up right now, I didn't think I needed the other as like I say the door locks and unlocks just fine with the remote.

I've talked to 3 different shop installers and after they looked at it they all said the same thing. "Thats why we don't carry compustar". Yeah.. ok.

But this is what it says word for word about the 2 wires.

Connector 4 Pin # 4 Blue wire: This wire is the (+) lock output that doubles as a (-) unlock output.

Connector 4 Pin # 5 Blue/Black wire: This wire is the (-) lock output that doubles as a (+) unlock output.

I hope all this makes sense... probably not. Sorry for rambling.

Here's 2 cents.

Crimestopper alarms use dual polarity lock and unlock. When a (-) pulse is sent to one wire, a (+) pulse is sent to the other. That way one wire is (+)lock, (-) unlock, and the other is (+) unlock, (-) lock.

They also include 2 diodes that you MUST install per your application. If you want to see a diagram go to crimestopper's website. Select "techweb", then "manuals", and choose CS2016FM install manual under "alarms" and go to page 12.

If you hooked up the lock/unlock wires without diodes, you could burn something out--probably your alarm.

So, yes, dual polarity locks do exist, I can attest, on at least one manufacturer. Will this help your problem? I don't know. If you're only using one wire from your Compustar to control 2 relays you only have one lock function wire being used. I can't imagine how it would work the way it's supposed to unless you have your one wire sending a (+) pulse to one relay on lock and (-) pulse to the other relay on unlock and you've got the relays wired to go along with that. That could cause issues that I get a headache just thinking about.

Check out the crimestopper diagram. Make sure of what kind of locks your car has. You said earlier they're negative, but posts on this site say they can only be either positive (OEM keyless entry) or 5-wire (No OEM keyless). Fix your wiring so that it's right--you shouldn't need relays on negative or positive polarity door locks from a dual polarity alarm system, so don't complicate things if you don't have to. If you have 5-wire power locks, wire it the way it shows here.   Get it wired the way Compustar meant for it to be and then chase down the gremlins if they still exist. Often, whey you get it wired the way the manufacturer recommends, they go away. If you still have problems use a DMM to test you lock wire outputs and make sure they're doing what they're supposed to. Don't use a test light.

Okay, maybe that's more like a dollar than 2 cents. Hope it helps.

Thanks for the help.

Ok after doing some looking into about the lock type it seems I have a positive trigger type A system. So I can remove the two relays I have in there right? Good since thats just extra clutter I don't need.

So I'm thinkin I connect the power lock (light blue) wire from my car to the blue wire (+) lock output / (-) unlock output on the brain? And then connect the power unlock (white) from the car to the blue/black (-) lock output / (+) unlock output on the brain. In that case do I need to diode isolate them like in that crimestoppers diagram?

That makes sense to me, but the bit about each wire doubles as opposite polarity unlock output doesn't make any sense.

Yes, I would definitely diode isolate them, stripe of the diodes pointing AWAY from the alarm brain.

As far as that design making any sense, I only installs them--I don't design them.

Well I was just saying that the crimestopper diagram you pointed me to makes more sense then the compustar. They don't even give you a diagram. Thanks for the link.

I just looked up another wiring diagram for my car (here on 12 volt) and it says the power unlock is reverse polarity. But 2 others have both said positive trigger type A for keyless entry and mention nothing about a reverse polarity. Is there a way to check for sure which it is?

I will pick up some diodes and isolate them as such. I'll remove the relays and try to wire them up like I described, and hopefully it will work. I think I tried it once but without the diodes, but that would explain why it didn't work right?

Thanks for your help so far.

Based on your questions and the last post I think you'd be better off spending a little time triple checking your alarm outputs and car locks.

If a Compustar dealer questions your alarm take the time to verify with a meter--with no wires hooked up--that the outputs of your blue and blue/black wires are what you say your manual says they are.

As far as checking what type of lock system you have you might find this link in "the12volt" helpful.

You've heard the old saying "measure twice, cut once". Well, checking your wires carefully and being sure of what you're hooking up sure beats trial and error and burning something out.

Well the unit is a Arctic Start RT2W900FMAS, which is the same thing as the compustar. As for the dual polarity locks I'm just quoting what it says in the manual. Wouldn't you guys say thats what it means by the two wires doubling as a different output?

Natsys, I'm not sure what you mean why testing the outputs of the blue and blue/black wires of the unit. If I don't have any wires hooked up what am I testing for exactly?

As I said earlier when I push button one on the remote to arm/lock the car the doors do indeed lock. And disarming them unlocks them as well. From that standpoint it works perfectly fine... it's just when I try to use the ign controller door locks that the lock system goes a little screwy. But I will take the relays out and try to hook them up differently and see what happens.

I appreciate your help so far guys, thanks.

Okay, here's another one: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

If you want to check your wires for positive polarity, disconnect the blue and blue/black wires from the alarm. Set your digital multimeter to volts and hookup the black probe to ground, and the red probe of the multimeter to the blue wire of the alarm. Press Lock on your remote and you should see the meter register positive voltage momentarily. Maybe not quite 12 volts, but something signifigant. Move the red probe to the blue/black wire and repeat while pressing unlock. Be sure to protect the wire you're not testing from touching another bare wire or ground--tape the end if you have to.

If you get positive voltage the alarm has positive polarity locks, which is what you think you need, so proceed to wire it up directly. Use the diodes. They're cheap and won't hurt--can only help.

To check negative polarity I believe the test is similar except that you put your red probe on a known 12 volt positive source and connect your black probe to the lock/unlock wires while pressing lock and unlock on the remote. You might want to confirm this before trying it just to make sure.

Nobody is going to say for sure "Yeah, go ahead and do it this way!" when we can't see the product or exactly how it's wired. Personally, I can only try to offer suggestions based on what you tell us, and what I've encountered. It's your car and your alarm and ultimately, your success or failure. The best way to succeed is be as sure as you can be before hooking up the wires. I've been quite lucky just hooking up wires, and I've seen an electronics engineer burn out his (alarm) brain by doing it wrong. Your best friend can be your multimeter--make it work for you.

Also, most local electronics shops don't offer help. One told my brother in law once "We don't give lessons". In other words, hire him to do it or don't bug him with it. Here you get Pro's who install these things all day long in all kinds of vehicles. If they offer advice I give it serious weight. You can't get this anywhere else that I know of.

Well turns out I just had 2 wires crossed, so thats my own fault. So now my door locks and ign controlled door locks work fine. Thanks for the help, a lot.

But I took a look at the starter relay problem in my first post. It was suggested that I had it hooked up backwards but it is hooked up right. Yellow is going to starter and yellow/black is going to key side. Bypass has to be fine casue it will remote start when disarmed, and it will start with the key. It will not start by remote when the car is armed.

Any ideas?

Did some further testing, if I lock the doors manually by switch the car will RS fine. Even if the door is open it will start. Hood open it won't start but thats suppose to happen.

It is just when I arm/lock the doors by the remote that the car will attempt to start 3 times and fail.

I don't have my status output wire hooked up, but I don't think I need it. The 2nd accessory isn't hooked up and I don't need that. Purple wire is connected to green wire from CN 1, and blue wire hooked up to 2nd ignition. I don't get it.

What changes in the starting when the car is armed? It starts fine disarmed but as soon as I arm it no go.

What bypass module did you use for your install ?

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

I made one with some resistors and breadboard.

It worked fine in my previous alarm/starter.

Did you get the resistance within 2% tolerance ??

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

I'm pretty sure it was, I made it a couple years ago so I can't be 100% certain. Maybe I should just go buy a bypass, I don't know.

But if it was the bypass, wouldn't it not remote start period? Like why is it just doing it when the alarm is armed.

Does the starter crank when it attempts 3 remote starts but won't start? Or does it just turn on the parking lights and accessories?

My first remote start I installed the "start" wire from the remote start unit on the key side of my starter kill relay. Then when I armed the alarm it cut out all starting--even my remote starter! Had to move the start wire from the remote starter to the "starter" side of the starter kill relay. It's a rookie mistake but I was a rookie.

If the starter cranks this is not your problem.

It will crank but it won't start up.

Could it be my bypass? Even though it starts fine without the alarm armed? I can buy a 556L at a local shop here, I'm just out of ideas.

interfire wrote:

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It will crank but it won't start up.

Could it be my bypass? Even though it starts fine without the alarm armed? I can buy a 556L at a local shop here, I'm just out of ideas.

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I can't think of anything other than your Starter Kill Relay is backwards or you have the starter output on before the starter kill instead of afterwards.  But if it is a Compustar pience, the starter kill/starter wire should be prewired and the starter wire should be fine. 

Sounds like it has to be hooked up backwards.  Test the wires to be absolutely sure you got the Key side and starter side right, then test the outputs from the unit to make sure it is right.  87a should go to starter and 30 should go to KEY.

Well I'll take another look at the starter kill, but like you mentioned it is prewired and the yellow and yellow/black wires are hooked up right. I've checked that like 50 times. I have no idea...

I'm sure something is hooked up wrong, or probably just something stupid... maybe it's my bypass. Can someone answer what changed when the car is armed? I mean if it remote starts without it being armed just fine shouldn't that eliminate the bypass, starter kill, and such?

Should I try a different bypass? Or is that even the problem, I don't think it is.

I honestly haven't done a GM vehicle, but on Hondas, Toyotas, etc. that I have done, if the bypass isn't activated it will crank, but not start.

How do you activate your bypass? The only ones I've dealt with require the activation wire from the bypass to be hooked up to a wire that provides a ground when you call for a remote start. If that's how it is you might try this:

Remove the wire from your bypass that needs ground to work and directly ground it to a good known ground. Then test the bypass by remote starting with the alarm armed, disarmed, doors open, doors closed, standing on your head......just kidding. If the car remote starts in all conditions the groundout wire that you're using to activate the bypass isn't doing the job, may not be the right wire, or could possibly even be overloaded (did you tie in your starter kill to this wire? If you did is the starter kill and the bypass diode isolated?). If it continues to have problems starting it would appear you have a problem with your homemade bypass.

Well the bypass is always on since it is just some resistors done up and I have it hooked off the starter line so it goes through it first. I'll try testing it like you mentioned and see if that shows up anything.

I picked up a DEI 556LW bypass this afternoon and I'll try that and see if that does anything. Is this a good bypass? Worth the 60 cdn I paid for it?

You mentioned using a diode to isolate the bypass, should I be using them with this 556LW? If so where should I put em?

Thanks

Not for nothing, but Ohio Mike has been saying your starter kill relay is the culprit and he may be on to something. If you have your bypass wired up all the time (which I'm sure you know defeats the purpose of your factory anti-theft system) where do you tap the starter for the power? If you tap it on the wrong side of the starter kill relay it won't get power during a remote start when the alarm is ARMED. It will get power when the alarm is UNARMED. Your tap has got to be on the starter side of the relay where you tie in your start wire from the RS unit. Personally, I don't recommend this method, but it could possibly be the source of your trouble.

If you choose to keep your bypass post some detail on how you wired it up. I'm sure there's a better way that won't compromise your car's security.

If you go to the DEI unit (I have abosolutely no experience with it so I can't say good or bad on it) make sure you wire it according to the instructions. If you use more than one accessory off your alarms' groundout when starting wire, put one diode in line of each accessory's grounding actuator wire, with the stripe side towards the brain of the alarm. For a diagram see www.crimestopper.com, "techweb", "manuals", and select the RS900 VII, page 4.

I'll be sure to look into that and see what I can find out. If I can fix that problem without this new bypass it'll save me 60 bucks.

I'm not sure where I tapped into power, I'll have to go look at it (I'm an hour away from the car so I'll check it this evening) but the starter/alarm unit I am replacing worked fine with the bypass even when it was armed so hopefully I am just overlooking a wire. But I will look into what you suggested.

I only have one accessory hooked up so I guess I don't need a diode, should I put any on my resistor made bypass to see if that eliminates anything? I'll post back later when I have a chance to look more into it.

Again, thanks for your help.

Well it turned out to be my bypass... I should have paid more attention to it I guess but I hooked up the 556L (Which is so much easier... auto programming) and it fired up first try. I left everything half tucked away and I'll try it more tomarrow before finishing up just to make sure everything works 5 times over.

Thanks all you guys for your help and input, it was greatly appreciated.