2006 Grand Vitara, alarm vs keyless start

Here's an interesting problem.

The 2006 Suzuki Grand Vitara, North American spec, comes with no alarm system. The fancier models (JLX-L) have a keyless entry/ keyless start system called "SmartPass". It is not remote start. Unlike most keyless start systems, you can also start it with the key (in case the fob's battery is dead), so it is vulnerable to attacks on the ignition cylinder. It also does not use a coded chip in the key. Most cars with keyless start come with alarm systems, and they can't be started with a key, or they have a coded key. So the '06 GV has an alarm issue no one seems familiar with.

In addition, if you leave the fob inside the car, you can't lock it.   Which means you can't hide the stock fob in the car so you can use that for keyless start even with an aftermarket alarm. Even more annoyingly, the accessory alarm system Suzuki offers for this vehicle does not solve this dilema.

I want to have installed an alarm system with immobilizer. No one I've discussed this with thinks it's possible to integrate the car's keyless start system with an alarm system. I've been told an alarm system with immobilizer will require either using both an alarm system fob plus the car's fob, or just not using the keyless start, or disabling the keyless start, or using a remote start instead of the keyless start.

What I would like to do is get an alarm system that has an immobilizer, and uses only the car's keyfobs.   I gather the problem with this is that the alarm system would respond to the radio signals from its keyfobs, while the car's locking/start system would respond to different signals from the car's keyfobs. But I would think that certain connections and relays would allow the two to be integrated, using only the car's keyfobs. Or is there an aftermarket alarm that easily adapts to this situation?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Most aftermarket alarms only arm and disarm through radio frequencies. Some have trigger wires that can be controlled thru a factory system. This is one of the few:

https://www.directed.com/security/hornet/horn_ke.asp

Impressive response. I can see I came to the right place for exactly the information I need. Now to chase down a retailer/installer. Thanks!

I called what probably is the largest car alarm installer in our city, and while they don't carry the Hornet, they say there's a Viper 330V that should do the job. I'll take the GV to them in the next few days to see what they think. They were reluctant to give a solid answer with just a phone description of the issue.

It seems the odd thing Suzuki has done is to put the tag in the fob, not in the key. Anyway, the install place wants to take a look at the vehicle before they can commit to being able to install a system.

If they can't sort it out, I may buy a Hornet 727T, get the factory repair manual, and do it myself.   Should only take me a week or so...

I thought I'd post how this turned out.

I had an Omega AL-100C system installed. The installers said it was a fairly demanding job. But it integrates fully with the factory fobs, and all the systems work properly, plus an optional 2-stage shock sensor.

The only drawback is that factory fobs typically don't have code-switching, so that function doesn't work. The installers around here say the local car thieves aren't copying codes.

Thanks for this great site, and to JWorm for putting me on the right track.

This is what I get for posting the alarm is working ok. I've come across two problem, so it has to go back to the installer. Who of course is not happy to hear about this since it seems they had a hard time with it.

One problem is that since the alarm was installed, the backlighting for the center control stack is so dim it's hardly on, and only 2 out of 5 bright led's on the ventilation controls light up. The instrument panel lighting is fine and I can't find any blown fuses.

The second problem is the outside door handle switches.

The two front door handles and the rear hatch door handles have little rubber buttons on them. These are for the keyless entry. If you approach the locked vehicle with the fob, without using the key, you can unlock one door by pressing the button once, or all doors by pressing it twice. Obviously these presses should disarm the alarm. And they do, one press or two, for the drivers door. But on the passengers door, pressing the button once to unlock the door triggers the alarm. Oddly, pressing it twice unlocks and disarms the alarm. Pressing the button on the rear hatch either once or twice triggers the alarm.

It won't be going back to the installers for a week. Is this simple stuff to fix, or are they causing expensive damage to the car's wiring?

I hope it goes well.. I have a 06' GV too.

~V

gv66 been reading your posts on the suzuki forums

Judging from the wiring diagrams im guessing they grabbed the signal to arm and disarm the alarm from the factory arm /disarm wires (I know there isnt a factory alarm but the wires should still be there giving the signal), that signal according to the wiring diagram is created when you use the key in drivers door to unlock/lock (I am guessing this would be the same as pushing the button on the door while having the key fob in your pocket)

this would explain why the aftermarket alarm only disarms when you unlock the drivers door....since when you push the button on the passager door handle 2x it unlocks every door including the drivers door(the one giving the signal to the aftermarket alarm)....but the rear door handle button's only function is to unlock the rear door.

It seems like in order to get the alarm to disarm at the first button push from either the passager door or the rear door, would be to tap onto the door unlock motor wire at both the passanger door and the rear door (making sure you use diodes to prevent the wrong door from opening) and connect it to the aftermarket alarm (+) disarm input (since the grand vitara is a 5 wire door locking system) (sometimes your aftermarket alarm will have a (-) and a (+) disarm input, two different wires, you can use either one to disarm the aftermarket alarm. If it only has a (-) disarm input then you have to put in a relay to change polarity.

Or you could just use the key fob and not worry about it

I know its confusing but a good alarm tech should be able to figure it out....IM IN NO WAY AN ALARM TECH, but if I do get a GV this is the way i would proly hook it up.

[quote]dfiddy: "If I remember correctly the keyless on the factory fob will continue to work when the vehicle is remote started, but that's neither here nor there. As far as using the factory key fob to control the doorlocks, I haven't come across this as of yet. What type of shop are you dealing with?"[/quote]

The system I had installed doesn't include remote start, but retains the keyless start, and uses only the factory fobs. So I guess what you've done would require using both the factory and alarm fobs, or just the alarm fobs and not using the keyless entry or start.

I didn't want to carry two fobs, didn't want remote start, and wanted to keep the keyless start and entry. To do so means the code switching function won't work.

I'm in Vancouver, and the installer is Ralph's. They assured me they could do this, and accepted the business, so I'm disappointed that now they say it's very difficult and they're losing money on this install. I would have had it done by another place, quoted at $85 less, had Ralph's not been so sure they could handle it.

Thanks racingtoys,

Yes, that's me on suzuki-forums.com.

It sounds like you may know more about this than the people I'm dealing with. I assume it's ok to pass on your advice to them.

The only thing I might disagree with is that the tailgate handle switch can be used with one or two presses to unlock either just itself, or all the doors.

I suppose I could inform the installer about this site and hope they post here to ask how to do it before wasting more of my time, or messing things up.

Working in their favour is that there's lots of space behind the dashboard, but even so they left some factory module loose from its mounting, and there's the odd scratch or two on panels they removed. No big deal.

On another note, when I picked up the car after the original install, I asked for both the owner and installer alarm manuals. The sales person at first said the alarm came with neither, because it's a keyless upgrade rather than a full system. I said it must have at least an owners manual, for things such as instructions for the valet switch. The salesperson found the owners manual in the car where the installer had left it, but continued to maintain there was no installers manual. Yet the alarm manufacturer's website lists an installers manual as one of the items included, and I can't imagine it being sold without an installers manual. I can understand them not wanting to give out installers manuals, but I think I'm entitled to it if I ask for it. I can't find a copy to download from the Internet, as I did for our other car's Avital 2100.

I have two questions:

1) Did the dealership who sold you your 06' GV tell you about the complicated electronics that are used in the car's keyless entry system?

Well they mentioned it to me and even warned me not to install any electronic upgrades to the car without a Suzuki technician (That included alarm systems & audio system upgrades i.e. head and speakers).

2) Have you sleeked counsel with your dealership? They will probably refer you to a Clarion based system so it can integrate with the car’s head unit.

The fact that Suzuki uses a keyless system, one should assume that using third-party car alarm manufacture has inevitable pitfalls because the technology is relatively rare.

No, they did not warn me. When I bought it, I was under the impression it had an alarm system. The dealer's own insurance people registered it as having an alarm (we get a discount for a passive arming immobilizer). There is an led on the dash, but it's a fake. I confirmed the actual equipment (or lack of it) by studying the owners manual.

Suzuki has an accessory catalog for the new Grand Vitara. The catalog has an alarm system. The dealership's parts dept. advised me the accessory alarm does not have an immobilizer and is no good. Perhaps it just doesn't work with the keyless system, which is not on all GV models. Both the parts dept and the salesman referred me to "Speedy", but never did specify an alarm or an outlet.

It seems unacceptable to sell a vehicle that cannot have an alarm system installed, and indeed, the European and Asian spec GV come with an alarm. However, Suzuki Canada flatly refused to recommend any alarm system (including their own - huh?) and as you heard, advised against doing anything with the wiring. Why can they not package up their European/Asian alarm system and install it for us and make money off doing that? Is this sensible customer service?

Lots of cars come with keyless systems and alarms today, but usually both.

I can't fathom why Suzuki refuses to help sort out this problem.

What do they expect me to do, hire a security guard to protect it?

So the verdict from the alarm company is that if they set up the alarm so that the alarm will disarm when the door switches on any of the three doors with the switches, are pressed once or twice, then it creates a vulnerability. The vulnerability is that if someone broke a window without triggering the shock sensor, they could use the inside door lock button to disarm the alarm. They said the way it is set up now, if someone did that, the alarm would be triggered.

The downside to leaving it the way it is, is that the keyless entry basically works only for the drivers door. Or use the keyfob to disarm the alarm. I guess I can live with that.

Again I asked for the installer's manual. This time, they gave me another copy of the owners manual. I said I got one of those last time. They said they aren't in the practice of giving out installation manuals. They could have said that the first time rather than pretend the alarm doesn't come with an installers manual.

Hey, i just read this article in my local newspaper about a potential security device that could be used for the 06' GV.

They referred to it as a battery brain Type 3 ( https://www.batterybrain.com/products/index.html ). It is a remote-controlled device that "dissconects" the electrical current from the battery to the car.

Thus, it is a remote-controlled immobilizer that does not conflict with the keyless system of the GV and is totally easy to install.

So ... If a-would-be thief breaks into your car he would not be able to drive off with your car and if he tried to steal the stereo the GV has a built in security lock the renders the stereo useless. All you have to do is read your owners manual and set a password.

Hope this is any help
~V

Thanks alpina,

However, it's a bit late for me now. I knew about the password protection for the radio, but there's already enough things to reset everytime you disconnect the battery. Presumably the alarm system will protect the radio anyway.