Push button start but with no ignition/ke
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=77635
Printed Date: May 18, 2024 at 9:34 PM
Topic: Push button start but with no ignition/ke
Posted By: noooorb
Subject: Push button start but with no ignition/ke
Date Posted: May 11, 2006 at 4:11 PM
Hey guys I want to do a push-button starter switch into my 93 civic. A simple momentary switch & relay is not a problem as I saw plenty of pictures/steps on how to install one of those.
My question is how do I go about it so that I can eliminate the key all together? I want to be able to start the car without the car at all (I know this is a safety issue I'll worry about that later). How do I go about wiring another swicth for acc,ignition to be able to do that. Using the multimeter I found what the 5 wires do in my ignition:
white - 12V constant
yellow - ignition, off when starter is initiated
yellow w/black- ignition, on when starter is initiated
black w/white- starter
white w/black- acc, on with ignition, off when starter is initiated.
Replies:
Posted By: mustangfoo
Date Posted: May 11, 2006 at 5:05 PM
how are you going to go about bypassing the steering wheel lock?
Posted By: Powermyster
Date Posted: May 11, 2006 at 5:55 PM
remove ign cylinder
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Why oh Why didn't i take the blue pill
Darren Power
Posted By: aaronU
Date Posted: May 11, 2006 at 6:11 PM
Just a thought, doesn't the ignition (steering) have to be locked when the vehicle is towed.
I know mine had to be.
Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: May 11, 2006 at 9:49 PM
You can use one low current toggle switch wired to a series of high current relays. Then, use a momenatary button attached to a dedicated starter relay. Like others say, you will still have a mechanical lock, but I have no clue how they work on the Honda. Also, by wiring all of your main circuits to one place you are just asking for someone to drive off with your car. Push button starters are great for cars that don't sit in parking lots or anywhere where the general public can access them (like real race cars). I'll leave it at that. ------------- Kevin Pierson
Posted By: mustangfoo
Date Posted: May 11, 2006 at 10:38 PM
well I have push to start in my car, but u still need my key to even turn the engine over, and I have starter kill wired in with my alarm
Posted By: Black Dak
Date Posted: May 12, 2006 at 12:13 AM
I installed a hidden switch to turn on all the accessories and a Viper push button start button in my Dakota. I was going to disable the steering lock as you are talking about, but I did not. I am glad I did it the way I did it. Having the added security of the steering lock gives me some comfort when I have to run back into the house and leave the truck running with the key in my hand. I think you will find out the same.
Posted By: noooorb
Date Posted: May 12, 2006 at 1:52 AM
Yes well this car is not gonna see any public places. It's parked in my driveway and I will only track the car so please don't worry about it getting stolen I know the inherent risk.
Posted By: noooorb
Date Posted: May 12, 2006 at 1:53 AM
I'll also look into the wheel lock
Posted By: noooorb
Date Posted: May 12, 2006 at 9:46 AM
Ok it seems like wheel lock is not an issue in my car. I can turn the wheel fine back and forth without a key in the ignition. But I'm still lost as to how to go about the wiring
Posted By: infinkc
Date Posted: May 12, 2006 at 11:25 AM
switched power to the ignition and acc, then momentary switch to the starter wire, easy as that.
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There are 10 types of people in the world, ones that understand binary and ones that dont.
Posted By: noooorb
Date Posted: May 12, 2006 at 1:03 PM
Yea but what about the wires that have current when in ignition, but no current when the starter is initiated?
I don't think it's as simple as that. I mean the car turns off some circuit when the car is starting to deliver the most power to the starter, correct? I don't think it can just be ignored.
Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: May 12, 2006 at 3:15 PM
For a track car it won't matter, as you won't have all the accessories that street cars have. Also, since its a race car I would imagine its got a newer starter on it, with a battery thats in race shape, so you should be fine without even worrying about the ACC power. ------------- Kevin Pierson
Posted By: b_sharp
Date Posted: May 12, 2006 at 3:37 PM
noooorb wrote:
I don't think it's as simple as that.
It is not simple.
REQUIREMENTS: IGnition is toggled on/off. STarter is 'momentarily' switched. Safety requires Tach monitoring about 2000 rpms, Neutral Shifter switch, Hood pin so no start with open hood, Brake switch possibly.
DANGEROUS SOLUTION: Relays in latching set/reset configuration to switch switch IGnition. Relay for STarter connection.
SAFE SOLUTION: Logic required to control starting using safe inputs eg Tach, Neutral. Requires 12V CMOS semiconductor chip logic design and high current 20/30Amp relays.
Simplest is buy a cheap, inexpensive remote start module on EBay.
Posted By: noooorb
Date Posted: May 12, 2006 at 4:59 PM
It's not gonna be an allout track car and I'll be driving back and forth to the track with it so accessories are needed.
b-sharp, correct me if i'm wrong, Aren't all the stuff you mentioned controled by the ecu or some other component and not by the ignition cylinder, which is the only thing I want to bypass.
Posted By: b_sharp
Date Posted: May 12, 2006 at 5:29 PM
Yes you can skip the anti-grind Tach & Neutral safety inputs just like an ignition switch. However, ignition is a special switch where IGnition is 'latched' first, then STart is momentarily pushed.
With Relays, the IGnition wire MUST be latched, aka held connected after STart push button is pressed. When STart is re-pressed, IGnition is disconnected.
In engineering parlance ...
The logic is:
* on *
IG = 0, ST = 0, PB = 0 (PushButton)
IG = 0, ST = 0, PB = 1
IG = 1, ST = 0, PB = 1
IG = 1, ST = 1, PB = 1
* hold til engine start *
IG = 1, ST = 0, PB = 0
* engine running *
* off *
IG = 1, ST = 0, PB = 0
IG = 1, ST = 0, PB = 1
IG = 0, ST = 0, PB = 1
IG = 0, ST = 0, PB = 0
The tricky part is second press of pushbutton to turn IGnition off (reset).
And you MUST guarentee that when ST is cranking, IG is always on, FIRST. Might require a Resistor/Capacitor delay on ST until IG is latched.
Logic semiconductors simplify it. It would require at least one special 12v 'latching' relay.
Posted By: b_sharp
Date Posted: May 12, 2006 at 5:36 PM
Ignore the Resister/Capactor delay. That is unnecessary. A fast ignition key turn requires no delay. The starter would just crank until IGnition is ignited.
Relays only: needs one special latching relay (for IG). maybe one or two more relays to handle the logic. Probably could be done with relays only.
Posted By: b_sharp
Date Posted: May 13, 2006 at 1:33 PM
A SOLUTION
PB____ 0 1 0 1 0
RlyLch B A A B B
RlyIG_ 0 1 1 0 0
RlyAcc 0 1 1 0 0
RlyST_ 0 1 0 0 0
where B = off, A = on
where RlyLch = Latching relay
all other Rly = normal relay
RlyIG = ignition
RlyAcc = accessory
RlyST = starter
Comment
when RlyLch = B, ALL std relays disenergized
when RlyLch = A, RlyIG & RlyAcc are energized
when RlyLch = A, Starter passes both through pushbutton
and RlyST (energized)
Posted By: mustangfoo
Date Posted: May 14, 2006 at 3:21 AM
damn u are making this so much more complicated for him than it actually is b-sharp. He is not in for the RS, he wants a push button in his vehicle to start it up instead of using the keys. Ebay's alarms at least most are not great either way. and what they sell them for, I can sell and ship cheaper than most! They are a ripoff!!!
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