$900 ford bill for diag. current draw
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=82595
Printed Date: April 27, 2024 at 12:42 PM
Topic: $900 ford bill for diag. current draw
Posted By: mxxmikexx
Subject: $900 ford bill for diag. current draw
Date Posted: September 07, 2006 at 5:32 PM
Everyone may find this amusing (even tho its outragous) We have a fleet of T-mobile field technician service vehicles (all 06' explorers and f-150's) I've done approx 25 total of these vehicles which all received the same product installed, audiovox aps-786's) Of course one of the vehicles is a thorn in my side now. Constant complaints of the battery going dead after the vehicle sits for a few days to one week. I got the vehicle back and unplugged the 786 and measured the current draw with my amm meter at the battery with all doors closed, domelight off , etc. i got a fluctuating range of anywhere from 40 ma to 400 ma over a few hour period of letting the vehicle sit and checking it every 1/2 hour or so. fords max amp draw with the vehicle idle is 50 ma. so the readings i got were well above that and constantly changing. So after it appeared that the problem wasnt related to the alarm (since it was unplugged) t-mobile brought the truck to a ford dealer who has had the truck for a few weeks and claims that there is no problem with the truck, which doesnt make sense because the tech told me they had to charge the battery after they received the truck, well when the truck left our shop it was fully charged and the alarm was still disconnected, so why did they have to charge it? the tech says he didnt experience the same fluctuating current draw like i did with the alarm unplugged, and only had a problem when the alarm was hooked up and the tech claims that the doorlocks were cycling, locking and unlocking (the truck never did that while i worked on it) which in turn wasnt letting the smart junction box sleep and shut down. SO now ford is sticking t-mobile with a $900 labor bill for charging the battery and determining that theres nothing wrong with the vehicle and the problem is directly caused from the alarm. The service manager also proceded to say that they have another 06 ford explorer with the same alarm installed by another install shop with the same problem, so basically he's blaming the audiovox alarm for the vehicles battery going dead, but he cant explain why the other 15 or so explorers we've done do not have a problem. The fact of the matter is that the vehicles battery was dying even after the alarm was unplugged, our current readings were higher than fords spec. now ford claims they havent experienced a problem, even tho they had to charge it when they first got it, they're blaming the alarm, and now charging $900 for 10 hours of labor to determine this. WTF!! I just had to vent on this experience and am interested in everyones feedback.
Replies:
Posted By: electrostatic
Date Posted: September 07, 2006 at 5:53 PM
$90 an hour? thats mad money! what i want to know is who authorized 10 hours of labor? it shouldn't take 10 hours to perform such a test.
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Prove your connections, use a meter!
I promise, I'll behave!
Posted By: ss-installer
Date Posted: September 07, 2006 at 6:27 PM
we ran into the same problem with a 2005 Chevy SSR. we had a buddy at the dealership that checked it out. there was a fuse in the wrong location straight from the factory.
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Posted By: mxxmikexx
Date Posted: September 07, 2006 at 7:26 PM
electrostatic-
yeah tell me about it, 10 hours for them to simply come back and say theres nothing wrong with the truck and the problem is related to the alarm. give me a break.
Posted By: dualsport
Date Posted: September 07, 2006 at 7:45 PM
So after their $900 hit, did they return the vehicle in a condition where the battery draw is within the 50mA spec? If it's still got the excessive draw, what do they need to be paid for? 10 hours worth of storage fees while waiting for the battery to drain down?
Posted By: KarTuneMan
Date Posted: September 07, 2006 at 8:10 PM
I first saw this term here on this site....."stealership" I love it! They want to drive us aftermarket guys to tears...
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Posted By: mxxmikexx
Date Posted: September 07, 2006 at 8:44 PM
truck hasnt been released from the dealer yet.We talked to one of the service managers at the end of last week who wasnt exactly sure what was going on with the truck, he just wanted us to come get the truck out of there, and he never said anything about no $900 labor charge, so we went there today and of course the manager we talked to last week is on vacation now, so we talked to someother guy in the service dept. that wasnt letting the truck go until someone pays the fee. Im sure t-mobile is going to shi* a brick when they call ford and they tell them its $900.
Posted By: russ lund
Date Posted: September 08, 2006 at 12:10 PM
I told the head of one of our local car "stealers ha ha" that they eventually need to hire a real electronics technician to troubleshoot and repair vehicles.He asked why,and I told him (1) any tech with a degree should be able to read a manual and flow chart.(2) he'll be able to read a multimeter properly(3) understand how current flows.Most wrenches(I love to wrench too) can't fix it unless they see it or hear it with only their eyes and ears.
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BigDog
Posted By: thepencil
Date Posted: September 08, 2006 at 2:02 PM
mxxmikexx,
Been there done that many times over. These are the cars that I hate to work on most Ford, GM, and Chrysler! They are nothing but COMPLAIN. All work and no PAY is what they boil down to. I am lucky, I have a choice not to work on them now. As for the rest of you guys, I feel for you if you haven't got the choice and there are bills to pay.
Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Acura, Lexus, Mazda are my main stable choice of diet. Installing the unit one time and over the years you will get repeat business of just selling replacements remote, battery, and reprograming services. My personnal experience with the import vehicle is that you install the system on once, you are follow up with many many referrals versus the bad mouth you get with the Domestic crap. This is not to your fault either when the domestic crap breaks down, but try telling that to your customer when their car encounters a problem at the "Stealerdoodie". Don't worry, if the domestic car maker will keep this up a few more years they will soon fine themselves making Golfing equipment instead. I am no longer risking any more of my talent and good business relationship with my customer that I build up over the year to let a poorly build product ruin it. Just my 2 cents.
------------- Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. 
Posted By: mxxmikexx
Date Posted: September 08, 2006 at 11:32 PM
update:
today I find out that "we" are not allowed back on the dealerships property because we were rude and insulted the technician by questioning his abilities to take 10 hours to determine that the alarm is causing the problem. Even tho we had a perfectly civil conversation with the tech,no verbal attacks were made, and now the service manager is saying otherwise now and telling us we are not allowed back there unless we are with the owner of the truck and are only there to pick it up and basically leave. can you believe this crap? I cant wait to get this truck back to see if the locks are even cycling like the tech is claiming, I've never seen it do it, nor has the tech who drives this truck ever experience the problem either.
So now basically we stand to lose this t-mobile account which has been very good for us, all because of all this B.S.
Posted By: KarTuneMan
Date Posted: September 10, 2006 at 8:58 PM
You should print evey page of this dialog and mail it to the service boss. make sure in one last post, to put up all of the dealerships info for ALL to see, near and far! That is completely ridiculous....these guys no NOTHING about service, NOTHING!
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Posted By: johnmax
Date Posted: September 11, 2006 at 4:07 PM
We have had many problems with fords like this. Turns out to be either the battery saver circuit or the GEM module. On another note, i had an argument with an independent mechanic last week about an alarm killing a battery. Of course i checked it out and unplugged the brain, and found a .5a draw on the factory dome light fuse. So he later bills the customer saying the alarm was the cause. I ask him "how did you find that since the alarm is disconnected?". he says that the harness being tied in by itself was causing the draw! So I ask him how much of a draw did he find and he tells me "there was a 12 volt draw". OH REALLY!? DUH!! I ask how many amp draw did you see from my alarm harness and of course i get "Uhhhhh amps uhh i dont know/remember". Well i called him an incompetent idiot and that was it. Idiots.
Posted By: thepencil
Date Posted: September 11, 2006 at 8:37 PM
Dealership work is like any boyfriend and girlfriend relationship. They stay together until someone better comes along and sweep them off their feet and you are on your own afterward. Basically, when things are good everything is great, but when things are bad it can get pretty nasty.
johnmax, about the "independent mechanic" person. If they have one, that's their best friend when they need a shoulder to cry on after the break-up.
------------- Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it.
Posted By: mxxmikexx
Date Posted: September 12, 2006 at 8:15 AM
johnmax, you said "We have had many problems with fords like this. Turns out to be either the battery saver circuit or the GEM module." so what was the final outcome in those circumstances?, did Ford actually replace whichever was bad, have you had these problems on the same explorers, or are you just saying youve had problems with fords in general? be more specific please. I've been installing for 10+ years and I have never had to deal with this much B.S. Over a basic alarm and remote starter install.
Posted By: Mad Scientists
Date Posted: September 12, 2006 at 8:27 PM
mxxmikexx wrote:
update:
today I find out that "we" are not allowed back on the dealerships property because we were rude and insulted the technician by questioning his abilities to take 10 hours to determine that the alarm is causing the problem. Even tho we had a perfectly civil conversation with the tech,no verbal attacks were made, and now the service manager is saying otherwise now and telling us we are not allowed back there unless we are with the owner of the truck and are only there to pick it up and basically leave. can you believe this crap? I cant wait to get this truck back to see if the locks are even cycling like the tech is claiming, I've never seen it do it, nor has the tech who drives this truck ever experience the problem either.
So now basically we stand to lose this t-mobile account which has been very good for us, all because of all this B.S.
If the t-mobile account is worth $900 to you, you eat the costs and carry on. $90/hr is low for a dealer.. most that I'm aware of are over $100/hr at this point. At this point it's your word against theirs.. all I could suggest at this point is to make sure everything is in writing. If the problem's gone, then it's gone, but if it's still there after $900 at the dealer then take it to another dealer or a very good indie and make sure you tell them what the situation is, and that everything is documented. Been there, done that. - won. Jim
Posted By: au5599
Date Posted: September 14, 2006 at 4:22 PM
Simple, pay the $900 for now. Check the vehicle out. If problem is tstill there remove all traces of system. Then take it to another dealer. If they find problem and fix it take the paperwork to manager of service at first dealership then go directly to Ford. I have had a relay do this to a wire bare enough to feed stuff it wasnt suppose to. So it could still do it without the brain in there. ------------- Street Dreams Car Club
93 GRAND CARAVAN SE / Astro
Team New York SS3-4 06 & SM3-4 07 DB Drag World Finals
2003 Chevy Suburban LT / 98 GTP
Posted By: john ogrady
Date Posted: September 14, 2006 at 8:58 PM
Years ago a draw test on a vehicle was hook up your amp meter and a reading at rest and then start pulling fuses or dis-connecting things until you find the source of the draw.Now a average vehicle has approx 10 computers in them and it takes 3/4 of an hour before they go into sleep mode before you can take a draw test.So if you open the door to take out a couple more fuses and the dome light comes on you will have to wait another 3/4 hour because the dome light is controlled by one of the computers.The draw should be less than 50ma.
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