Starter Killer, How Safe it is?
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=89399
Printed Date: April 29, 2024 at 11:18 AM
Topic: Starter Killer, How Safe it is?
Posted By: megatfauzi76
Subject: Starter Killer, How Safe it is?
Date Posted: January 22, 2007 at 10:20 PM
Hai.. How safe our car if got starter killer? Any recommandation...Where to put the starter killer? Also which part of the starter wire the best to cut so that..thives cant find it?
Replies:
Posted By: jayno20
Date Posted: January 22, 2007 at 10:44 PM
im wondering this too, i have doubts on the starter kill and some say its fine others say there's problems...
Posted By: ferretvw
Date Posted: January 22, 2007 at 11:00 PM
Since the starter only allows the car to start it is the safest circuit to kill IMO, if the starter were to fail while driving the driver wouldn't notice until they went to try and start the car again. however if you kill say the ignition or the fuel pump and the car is driving down the road it could end badly. Generally the safest place to interrupt a starter wire is in the ignition harness between the ignition and the fuse box (especially for honda's).
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2008 Scion xB
Pioneer AVIC-D3
RF 3Sixty.2 sound processor
Stock speakers (for now ;))
Posted By: captainzab
Date Posted: January 22, 2007 at 11:02 PM
all depends on the car, if its a new car with immobolizer, it is already safe, and adding a starter kill is just another layer of protection that doesnt hurt.
if its an older car without immobolizier, you will have to disguie your starter kill so that it looks factory. also hide the alarm brain real good. Its all about making your wires look factory so that the theif cannot disable it.
What wire- starter wire
location- ignition harness
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Note: You Always Dont Get What You Pay For.
Posted By: splaudio
Date Posted: January 23, 2007 at 5:14 PM
i have put them in but i carry no warrenty when i do this. if the customer wants one i explain i use good quality relays but if it dies or the fuse blows i will not fix for them unless they can get the car to me. this way i cover my back that a customer is 50 miles away and calls me telling me it's my fault there car wont start. some dealers also void ur warrenty if u cut wires...
Posted By: jayno20
Date Posted: January 23, 2007 at 7:39 PM
how often do you have problems with them?
Posted By: dre187
Date Posted: January 23, 2007 at 9:20 PM
At my shop, we never install starter kill unless specifically requested. If the customer's battery in the remote dies while the alarm is armed or he looses the remote, the customer will be stuck somewhere and be calling you complaing they can't start their vehicle. it happens more then you would think too...
Posted By: duct tape
Date Posted: January 23, 2007 at 11:40 PM
if the customer was shown how to defeat the alarm by using the valet switch, then you might not receive as many calls :)
Posted By: iceman7329
Date Posted: January 24, 2007 at 12:36 AM
duct tape wrote:
if the customer was shown how to defeat the alarm by using the valet switch, then you might not receive as many calls :)
Yeah, that would work when the relay that supplys power to your starter goes bad or a wire comes off.
Posted By: duct tape
Date Posted: January 24, 2007 at 7:02 AM
i was responding to the comment that when the batteries in the remote die, the guy gets calls. use prewired sockets and make good connections. I do not recall ever having to replace a starter kill relay due to failure. i have replaced one that had a bullet go through it 
Posted By: jayno20
Date Posted: January 24, 2007 at 5:03 PM
ok how often do the relays go bad? because for me losing the keys etc. isnt ever going to happen. I MIGHT be interested in having starter kill put in, but i dont want things to go wrong especially if it happens often enough.
Posted By: duct tape
Date Posted: January 24, 2007 at 5:15 PM
i have never seen a properly installed SPDT 30 amp relay go bad, ever. maybe i'm just a lucky guy, but i dont think so 
Posted By: tragik
Date Posted: January 24, 2007 at 5:53 PM
Relay failure is rare, but I have seen it happen a few times. I try to discourage customers from having me do starter kills, but I will do it if they insist.
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Northstart.....or start it your damn self.
Posted By: dre187
Date Posted: January 24, 2007 at 6:14 PM
the average customer walking out of the shop, espeically older people, are not going to remember 75% of all the information you just pumped into their head about their alarm/starter after you installed it, especially if it is a couple months or years down the road. the point im trying to make is, the customer can get stuck somewhere because they forget how to use the valet switch. the shop is not open 24/7 so they cant call whenever they have a problem. relays dont often go bad and that would be the least of your worries. the connections to the relays are important as a loose or weak connection can get you stuck somewhere.
Posted By: ihkili18
Date Posted: January 24, 2007 at 7:59 PM
I was with a friend who had a compustar 2wss-as installed in his acura tsx by a reputable dealer. As we came to the car and he tried to disarm the alarm and it would not disarm. We tried the one way remote and that would not diarm the system as well. The worst part was that there was a starter kill installed as well and now the alarm was sending the ground keeping the starter kill active with no way to disable it. We had to take a cab home and I came back with him and my tools and reconnected the cut starter wire and he took it back to the shop and they replaced the brain. So this is another instance in which the starter kill spells trouble.
Posted By: captainzab
Date Posted: January 24, 2007 at 9:19 PM
ihkili18 wrote:
I was with a friend who had a compustar 2wss-as installed in his acura tsx by a reputable dealer. As we came to the car and he tried to disarm the alarm and it would not disarm. We tried the one way remote and that would not diarm the system as well. The worst part was that there was a starter kill installed as well and now the alarm was sending the ground keeping the starter kill active with no way to disable it. We had to take a cab home and I came back with him and my tools and reconnected the cut starter wire and he took it back to the shop and they replaced the brain. So this is another instance in which the starter kill spells trouble.
all you had to do was remove ground from the brain, or pull the fuse, or unplug the main harness.
it was a normally closed starter kill.
------------- Note: You Always Dont Get What You Pay For.
Posted By: Custom_Jim
Date Posted: January 24, 2007 at 9:35 PM
ihkili18 wrote:
I was with a friend who had a compustar 2wss-as installed in his acura tsx by a reputable dealer. As we came to the car and he tried to disarm the alarm and it would not disarm. We tried the one way remote and that would not diarm the system as well. The worst part was that there was a starter kill installed as well and now the alarm was sending the ground keeping the starter kill active with no way to disable it. We had to take a cab home and I came back with him and my tools and reconnected the cut starter wire and he took it back to the shop and they replaced the brain. So this is another instance in which the starter kill spells trouble.
I agree with captainzab and to add most of the better installations should be gone over with both the owner of the car and the installer so that towing is a last resort. Things can fail and if the valet switch does not turn off the system then the fuse should be somewhere that the customer and installer know where it's at. Put the fuse next to other fuses in one of the fuse blocks like under the dash or under the hood and make notes on the receipt as to where a disabling fuse or valet switch might be at. I wouldn't though leave the fuse easily accessible but know where it's at if needed. Now this won't help a whole lot on a used car someone may have bought from somewhere and the new owner is unaware of things but those things happen also. Out of 25 years of installing I have only had to replace TWO relays and the one was some el-cheapo overseas crap that came from Wolo and JC whitney and the other was that 1/10th of 1% that will be bad or go bad. NEVER have I had a Bosch or Potter/Brumfield relay fail. There are a bunch of relays on todays cars and while anything can fail it's not that often or hardly at all. NOW if you expect a 30A relay to pass 60A of current for years while underwater then you will be setup for a failure. Jim ------------- 1968 Chevy II Nova Garage Find 2012
1973 Nova Custom
1974 Spirit of America Nova
1973 Nova Pro-Street
Posted By: imseth85
Date Posted: January 24, 2007 at 9:36 PM
On newer cars I don't think a starter kill relay is neccessary. You basically need a degree in electrical engineering in order to get past the immobilizer, and then there's the steering wheel lock. Does anyone really think a person who got that far is going to let a starter kill relay stop them? The only time an SKR is useful in that case is when someone gets the keys to the car, and not the keypad (and a good theif can use the valet switch).
P.S. If you have a degree in electrical engineering, you don't need to resort to stealing cars
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Seth Alvo NY
Mobile Electronics Installer
Posted By: imseth85
Date Posted: January 24, 2007 at 9:38 PM
duct tape wrote:
i have never seen a properly installed SPDT 30 amp relay go bad, ever. maybe i'm just a lucky guy, but i dont think so
You're absolutely right, they do not go bad I agree 100%. It's possible in rare cases of course, but it's a non-issue. ------------- Seth Alvo NY
Mobile Electronics Installer
Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: January 24, 2007 at 10:40 PM
I think starter kill is a very safe feature and one that I use in conjunction with a antigrind set up on many remote starters, lock the doors, starter kill kicks in. I havent had it fail yet so to me its a non issue. Is it a real usefull deterent? Not overly, its fairly easy to bypass on most installs, HOWEVER it does stop people from popping the ignition on your intrepid and starting the car with a flat head. Anything that adds time onto a theif trying to steal your car is a win in your favour and improves your chance of your car being there in the morning.
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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
Posted By: throwback2332
Date Posted: January 24, 2007 at 11:26 PM
Starter kill is a feature that makes the car owner feels safe untill a installer has to come to the middle of no where and take 2 mintues to bypass it so the car will start. A real car thief can bypass an aftermarket unit easily. So its kinda ify.
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If it's not custom, then it's not you.
Posted By: jayno20
Date Posted: January 24, 2007 at 11:33 PM
every second counts i'd say, even if they can bypass the starter kill in a minute, thats one more minute they wouldnt have had to mess around with it and one more minute that improves ur chances of them not taking the car... i just want to make sure that its not going to cause problems for me.
Posted By: megatfauzi76
Date Posted: January 26, 2007 at 2:25 AM
How bout 103T failsafe starter killer? Its is stand alone starter killer...Any comments?
Posted By: Strykrincognito
Date Posted: January 26, 2007 at 11:41 AM
I've been looking into the keypad based starter kill systems, and they're simple enough. The 103T has a neat little feature that makes it's backlit display the status LED for your system of choice. It also has an overide feature for the dataports of DEI units for system control. It seems like the general issues here that I can see from this thread is: 1) If you're doing the install yourself for your car or someone you know personally, YOU'LL know where everything is and how to teach yourself and/or your friend how to bypass it if doodie hits the fan. If you need to train a customer, give'em a cheat sheet or something to stuff in their wallet. DEI makes nice little cards for that most of the time. 2) They say you will never be able to stop a determined theif from stealing your car, regardless of breaking into it and taking everything that's inside and leaving the hull. If you are worried about a thief getting under your dash or hood to start yanking wires, install custom shrouds to protect everything (This falls into the category of 'High Security Installs'). 3) The only time I have seen relays go bad is if they are A) exposed to voltages outside their operating parameters, and B) are placed in environments where they are exposed to harsh weather elements, i.e. under the hood and not properly sealed, protected, etc. I have had at least one relay go to hell on me, and it was mostly the socket that became corroded. --Si ------------- Angel
Lone Technician
Percussive Therapy: The art of executing applied force directly to an object accurately in an effort to remedy the problem at hand.
Posted By: jayno20
Date Posted: January 28, 2007 at 11:29 PM
So if you were me, and as of right now didn't have starter kill installed, would you take it back and get it put in?
Posted By: Strykrincognito
Date Posted: January 29, 2007 at 11:28 AM
Nutshell: If you're not comfortable with the tips for bypass noted below, my answer is NO. If it were /my/ car, and I was having a starter kill installed, I would request as a part of the install that the shop _TEACH_ me how to bypass it in an emergency; this bypass could be a five minute snap or a 15-30 minute additional cost in training or hidden switch, etc. Granted, the new DEI Starter Kill systems have a 'Failsafe' name attached to them, but for the record I don't know what that implies. However, for my current Starter Kill, if my alarm starts going wacky, I have a few options for emergencies, I believe one was mentioned earlier: Pull brain main harness (most starter kills are active on power only) -or-
Find/know where the 'Ground-when-Armed' wire is (Orange on DEI units) and cut that -or-
Have the unit programmed for a Vallet Button disarm feature -or-
Have the 103T unit installed with a coded bypass... Good luck. ------------- Angel
Lone Technician
Percussive Therapy: The art of executing applied force directly to an object accurately in an effort to remedy the problem at hand.
Posted By: jayno20
Date Posted: January 30, 2007 at 12:12 AM
so if the starter kill went wacky i could disarm it with the valet switch?
Posted By: Strykrincognito
Date Posted: January 30, 2007 at 10:43 AM
Talk to your installer at this point, they would have the details.
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Angel
Lone Technician
Percussive Therapy: The art of executing applied force directly to an object accurately in an effort to remedy the problem at hand.
Posted By: dre187
Date Posted: January 30, 2007 at 9:52 PM
most alarms' valet switches work the same. if the alarm is going off, put the key in the cylinder and turn it to the 'on' position. some units you then just press and hold the switch and some you press-release, then press again and hold the switch ( such as d.e.i. product).
Posted By: turbo_boss
Date Posted: February 10, 2007 at 9:40 AM
ferretvw wrote:
however if you kill say the ignition or the fuel pump and the car is driving down the road it could end badly.
So everybody says no to interrup/kill the ignition..................So what do you do when you are instaling the antihijack feature? Almost every alarm today come with the antihijack feature. Inclusive the Clifford Black Jack kills the ignition. THX, Isaac
Posted By: jayno20
Date Posted: February 10, 2007 at 2:18 PM
dre187 wrote:
most alarms' valet switches work the same. if the alarm is going off, put the key in the cylinder and turn it to the 'on' position. some units you then just press and hold the switch and some you press-release, then press again and hold the switch ( such as d.e.i. product).
so if i had the starter kill installed and it went wacky for some reason, would i be able to disable it by using that method to disable the alarm and then i would be able to start my car?
Posted By: megatfauzi76
Date Posted: February 11, 2007 at 7:03 PM
Im using 103T failsafe starter killer..From what I know...If I cant start my car...Something goes wrong to my 103T..I just pull out or take out the 103T module...So the system will come back to normal...Coz...When it armed...it always disconnected btwn 30 and 87a...So...if i take out the 103T module...the relay will connect btwn 30 and 87a... Correct me if im wrong Thank you
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