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r/s bypass output w/ starting

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=91297
Printed Date: May 05, 2024 at 5:16 PM


Topic: r/s bypass output w/ starting

Posted By: hinge817
Subject: r/s bypass output w/ starting
Date Posted: March 05, 2007 at 3:15 PM

hey ppl, just trying to clarify things. i have a 2003 dodge ram 3.7 reg cab plain janer. no electric anything. i have added autoloc's basic 2 actuator kit. works good. im adding a AGA-1201 alarm with R/S. havent installed any alarm components yet although i do have the dash and such taken out for when i have more time. my question is about the "(-)200mA bypass output when romote start" blue/white wire. from what ive read i would just use this if i had additional sensors (glass, vibration, etc).  i have printed the color code guides and related info on my truck off here, very helpful. im sure ill have other questions but i think for now this is it. oh yeah, as far as the starter kill, should i use the wires on the ignition harness or find the power supply for the distributor. although my truck doesnt have one. it uses coil packs on each spark plug.ill try to get a diagram so you can see what im referring to. thanks



Replies:

Posted By: master5
Date Posted: March 05, 2007 at 3:37 PM

The neg output bypass wire is typically used for bypassing factory immobilizers..although it could be used for bypassing sensors as well. However, most systems..especially newer ones..do this automatically.

As far as the starter kill just use the crank wire at the ignition harness..do not mess with the coil packs..although in some cases you can tap off a neg wire for tach sense..but that is safe as the tach sense wire is very high resistance so will have no adverse effects.



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Posted By: hinge817
Date Posted: March 05, 2007 at 4:14 PM
alright, thanks. i was thinkin about using one of the coil packs as the tach signal. the alarm can also use oil light input as well. as far as the starter, your saying use the starter wire at the ignition harness. making a cut  and one side would be the car side and other key side, using the relay supplied with alarm as starter kill. i think thats how it works anyways.




Posted By: master5
Date Posted: March 05, 2007 at 6:52 PM

Yep..you got it..once you cut the crank wire you have 2 sides...key side (coming from the ignition switch)..and car side (I call it "motor" side). Wire it to the relay as per the directions and you have a simple starter kill.

As far as what you stated about the oil light..I have never heard of that..can you explain more about what the instructions state this does for the remote start. I would think the only valuble use for that would be to shut down the remote start if the oil pressure was to drop..I can't imagine the oil light to be a reliable substitute for tach sense or even voltage check for that matter.



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Posted By: hinge817
Date Posted: March 05, 2007 at 7:07 PM

ok lets see. violet/white wire: Tach input or high-voltage sensing input wire... blah blah about where to find right connection....  . correct wire shows between 1V to 6V (AC) and fluctuates with the idle of the engine when testing with MM.  8-pin harness... pin 3: RED WIRE (+) connect to wire which is usually connected to the Oil Sensor on the dashboard or to the alternator in the engine compartment and connect this wire. 2-3 V on MM when key is turned to second turn position in the key cylinder and +12V - +14V shows when the starter is running.   seems a lil confusing to me as to where to hook it. let me know what ya think





Posted By: master5
Date Posted: March 05, 2007 at 7:23 PM

Ok..that is confusing...ignore all that stuff..the person who wrote that manual obviosly has too much free time on thier hands...basically they are clutching at straws to find a zillion possible ways to get a tach signal.

For your vehicle it is much simpler. Tap onto any wire at either the ignition coil...coil pack...or injectors that is NOT GREEN/ orange. Don't let that confuse you either..its about choice..simply choose a location that is easiest for you to get to..apparently you will see green w/ orange wire there...tap onto the other wire..program the tach as per the directions..and you are home free with that.

Hope this info helped.  



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Posted By: master5
Date Posted: March 05, 2007 at 7:36 PM

I got curious and looked up that system online. It seems there are wires for the alternator and oil pressure light and I believe those are to sense for a high or low condition.perhaps an option if you can't get to a tach wire..the tach sense is designed to let the RS unit know when the engine is actually running..so it knows to re-start if it didn't start..as well as not over grind the starter or re-engage it once it is running by attempting to start the vehicle again when it is already running. That wire should also sense for RPM as well and shut down if high revs occur..but I can't say if that particular unit does it..I know nothing about that brand at all..never heard of it.

Now the voltage sense (which can be used to sense the engine running as well)..and perhaps this oil pressure sense can do the same..but the relaibilty of using the tach sense is fool proof and if using that I would not worry about the wires for the alternator and oil light.  Unless the instructions state that you MUST hook these up for safety...even if using the tach..then I would be more concerned.



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Posted By: hinge817
Date Posted: March 05, 2007 at 7:54 PM

absolutely helpful, the book is kinda vague to begin with, seems like they give ya just enuf to cause headaches. ill get a diagram up and ask a few questions as well.

posted_image





Posted By: hinge817
Date Posted: March 05, 2007 at 7:57 PM

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w247/monetxgirl/alarminstructions.jpg

Link to view image of alarm instructions.  Please excuse double post...





Posted By: master5
Date Posted: March 05, 2007 at 9:09 PM

OK...as I thought..it says clearly on the side of the instructions that if you are using the tach wire (and I already said where you can get that) you do not hook up the oil switch or alternator wires..so cool..just hook the tach wire and tape off the other 2.

There are several other wires you will not need to hook up for the remote start to work so it shouldn't be that bad. The neutral safty switch wire will need to be grounded if you choose not to hook it up...just remember on some chyslers that the neutral safety is before the crank wire so make sure never to remote start if the truck is in gear..which is unlikly if you keep the remote on your key chain. In other words to leave the vehicle and take the key out it has to be in park..so not really a major concern..just something they add for liability purposes.

There are a dozen other wires you will not need as well but when you have any questions just ask. And yes..that diagram is a clusterfu{k and a half...did you get that system on ebay or something?



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Posted By: hinge817
Date Posted: March 08, 2007 at 7:03 AM
thanks for the help. im gonna give it a go today. i figured id temp install everything first then make sure it all works right then go one by one and permenantly install everything that way. the alarm is no biggie. this is my first R/S install so im sure ill be running back and forth from the garage to the comp for additional help. thanks again.......and yes ill begrudgingly say that i did buy this unit off ebay




Posted By: master5
Date Posted: March 08, 2007 at 4:45 PM

Thats alright..as confusing as it seems...there really is not that much to a remote start...there are installers that have built these themselves using nothing but a handfull of relays.

All the unit really does is makes the connections at the ignition switch wires like when you turn the key..But it only does what is nessecary to allow crank..run and accesory for the HVAC. It should work fine..might have a few bugs here and there but it is not rocket science..good learning experience for you as well.

Keep us posted.



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Posted By: hinge817
Date Posted: March 13, 2007 at 3:42 PM
giving up for the day, things arent workin out at all. unhooked the alarm to put diodes on the door triggers and hook up the starter kill. hooked things back up and the alarm wont come on but chirps 3 times after a few minutes. wont recognize the remote either. i hooked up the starter kill and the truck still starts except if i unplug the relay, guess ill have to trouble shoot tomorrow. effin thing! from the diagrams, i have a normally closed starter kill, it says to connect the orange to alarm orange (-). and yellow to the key side of starter wire which in my case is yellow as well. i think ive got em backwards... hell i dunno.... ive had it with the damn thing today. it worked fine when i had it temp installed, it armed, unlocked, locked fine.




Posted By: custom audio ny
Date Posted: March 13, 2007 at 6:46 PM

If it doesn't recognize the remote it might need re-programming. But first use a DMM to check the basics...make sure the 12v constant is good..the ground is good..and the ignition wire is good.

If those 3 connections alone are wired correctly, with the key OFF, the system should respond to the remote..if not it needs reprogramming.....or it is defective. Those directions are a bit scary..even on the negative when armed starter kill output wire (orange)..it states it is for starter kill...yet..shows a picture of an OLD, old school ignition coil..and says to connect it to the "distributor". Now this tells me the designer of this system..or at least whomever wrote the diagram, has not worked on a vehicle newer then the early 1980's at best., or is totally clueless. this is what you are up against.

But..when or "if" (sorry) you get the system responding and operating here is how to check the starter kill (please do NOT cut any coil or distributor wires).

Ok....you cut the starter wire (shows 12v+ when the key is in crank ONLY) and you have 2 sides (I assume you have got this far). So now you have 2 sides of a wire..one side from the key...one side goes out to the starter solinoid..typically refered to as "motor side".

The orange is negative when you arm..set for normally closed as you know already. The relay will have numbers on the bottom where the terminals are so you may need to unplug it to see these.

It can work a few ways so I will list them all.  Ok, the orange will usually be on 85 (coil) but it could work on 86 (also coil). If the orange wire is on 85...make sure 86 is connected to the KEY side of the starter wire. Now....make sure 30 is also on the key side as well,...30 is a high current "common" contact so the wire on that should be heavy gauge, the jumper over to 86 can be small, doesn't really matter. 87a goes to the MOTOR side. 87 is not used, that is for normally open which you can not do with this system. IF the orange wire goes to 86... the KEY side jumper wire should be on  85..it will work either way as long as the socket is wired properly. All you really need to do is probe the socket wires to make sure it is wired properly and making good connections. I can only assume it comes with a cheap socket if any so those quite often have poor crimps or the terminals pop out of the socket and don't make a good contact with the relay..you must check all that.

If you need to PM me that is fine, I know master5 and there is a problem with his account activation so he told me he can't get to his inbox or respond to any posts until it's fixed.



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Custom Audio
Lynbrook NY

ASE/MECP master certified




Posted By: hinge817
Date Posted: March 13, 2007 at 7:49 PM
haha, i noticed the coil drawing as well, i thought it was a lil outdated. thanks for the starter kill info. i wrote to master5 about the r/s. i dont think ill be using it and im sure im makin it alot harder than it needs to be, i just dont want to fry my heater fan or anything. his notes said the acc. wires were green and orange. i was wondering if those both have to be powered up or if either one would work. my truck is a 2003 ram 3.7 with no power anything and no factory alarm (grey keys). also i was wondering if i would do any damage to anything if i didnt use the acc. wires at all. i live in tx so its only cold about 3 weeks a year and as far as the a/c goes, its a reg cab truck so it doesnt take long to cool down. i do like the idea of bein able to take the key out and lock the doors via remote and leave it running and run into the store or bank or whatever. he did say the rams are a pain to install r/s on and now i believe him. thanks




Posted By: custom audio ny
Date Posted: March 13, 2007 at 8:40 PM

Got your PM ..

You don't have to worry about doing any damage by NOT connecting all the wires. It is connecting to the wrong wires..or pokin around unknown circuits and wires with test lights that is a problem. If you only connect one acc wire, and it needs 2 or more (doubtful) it will not harm anything, but the HVAC may not work with the RS..but will still be fine with the key.

Ok I am going to give you a trick of the trade..but don't tell anyone....lol..well alot of people know this. Take a fuse holder and put a 10amp fuse in it. Connect one side to constant 12v thick wire at ign. harness. Now splice back some insulation on the thick wires that you KNOW by testing with a DMM are the accessory wire(s). Now simply touch the other side of the fuse wire to the acc wires one at a time and see which one turns on the fan. If niether one does..you need them both. The vehicle does not need to be running to do this test. The fuse is there in case you touch ground..lots of metal under there ya know..better to blow a cheapo 10amp fuse then a main under the hood.

Now wasn't that easy??  Don't give up just because that truck is a pain..just think if you get this right the next won't seem so bad..one way to look at it.



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Custom Audio
Lynbrook NY

ASE/MECP master certified




Posted By: hinge817
Date Posted: March 14, 2007 at 9:39 AM
still not sure about the remote start. i got to thinkin if i just use it to start the engine and not use the acc for hvac, then if i leave the truck running and take the keys out and lock the door with the keyfob then the hvac will turn off untill i put the key back in. also ive found that most ppl have to use a relay to power up the second acc. lots of hassle and again i dont think i need it that much. so just gonna stick with the basic alarm, thanks anyway for all your help, i like the idea of testing for various wires using the fuse holder, never though of that, pretty ingenious.




Posted By: custom audio ny
Date Posted: March 14, 2007 at 6:29 PM

Ok it's up to you bro....but if you need a 2nd acc relay it is easy..just do this....connect 86 to the first acc..any ga.wire...connect 85 to to gound, any ga. wire. connect 30 to constant heavier gauge wire, connect 87 to 2nd acc.,heavier ga. wire. 87a not used...very basic.

posted_image



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Custom Audio
Lynbrook NY

ASE/MECP master certified




Posted By: custom audio ny
Date Posted: March 14, 2007 at 6:31 PM
better diagram it messed up...posted_image

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Custom Audio
Lynbrook NY

ASE/MECP master certified





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