shop owners and expediters
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=94151
Printed Date: April 25, 2024 at 2:55 AM
Topic: shop owners and expediters
Posted By: NismaX
Subject: shop owners and expediters
Date Posted: May 22, 2007 at 1:02 PM
Have you had this issue:
Recently I have had one of my dealers bill me for a overflow tank I forgot to replace in the engine compartment of a Honda Ridgeline. It had to be removed to access the injector harness. I must have forgotten to replace it. I have been installing for 20 years so I just blew it off to just a forgotten item. I offered to pay for a replacement. Problem solved.
Now here is the interesting part. A couple of weeks later the same dealer calls me and tells me of a wire that got chaffed through by one of my relay brackets. It apparantly blew the fuse to the cig liter socket. They went ahead and fixed it but charged me $106 to fix this. They didn't let me see what they did for repair just hand me the bracket off the relay and a piece of insulation that was found in the kick panel that came off the wire harness. They tell me that my relay bracket rubbed through the wire for the cig liter and blew the fuse. I think I'm being played for a sucker here because they never bothered to call when the problem was discovered just fixed it and billed me.
Now being a shop owner and being responsible for damages caused by an installation is part of the business. I have never had dealers bill me for a repair like this. I am usually consulted on such things. I gave the service writer some advise. If you have an issue with my work I want to see it before you bill me otherwise I am not responsible for unnecessary work or repairs that you feel are required at my expense. You need to get prior approval beforehand from me the owner. I want the right to investigate the situation.
Has anybody else had simialar experiences and how did you handle them?
As another point to the above story they also billed me for a cig liter socket that was proven to be ok. They had no problem taking this off the bill.
Jon
Replies:
Posted By: tonyberg
Date Posted: May 22, 2007 at 2:11 PM
When i worked for an independent dealer we put on the bottom of our receipts that any and all work caused by or related to the remote starter was to be seen or repaired by us first before they take it to another shop or they were responsible for the bills. A little line that saved us some big money
Posted By: xtremej
Date Posted: May 22, 2007 at 2:13 PM
Don't pay it. Who the hell are they to decide and charge you.. If you did not authorize that you would accept the charges prior to the work than screw'em. These guys think because they work for the big bad dealer they can do as they please, I bet if you check what they did with your lawyer it was illegal and you are not obligated to pay a single cent....................
Posted By: thepencil
Date Posted: May 22, 2007 at 4:07 PM
NismaX,
Reading your post I am not so sure if this is a one night stand or a long term relationship with the dealer. I stand on your side if this is a one time-ish thing. Who ever authorized it without your consent should pay for it. On the other hand, if you were in a long term relationship with this dealer you may may just want take the hit and put in the fine print for the next time as tonyberg suggested.
"When i worked for an independent dealer we put on the bottom of our receipts that any and all work caused by or related to the remote starter was to be seen or repaired by us first before they take it to another shop or they were responsible for the bills. A little line that saved us some big money"
You could be a AXXhole for doing so, but when things are clear and in print the relationship last much longer.
For myself, I don't warrenty the remote control what so ever the moment they leave my shop. I make them initial that part on paper so it's clear that they have to take good care of the remote. Ever since I started that program a million years ago I no longer have to attend to abuse remote and my wasted time trying to program new one because it was drop or broken by their pet dog. I may have lost some potential customer, but I gain more time, more careful customer, less verbal volley ball on excuses, all possible because it was back up a small fine print that is understood by both parties. ------------- Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. 
Posted By: KarTuneMan
Date Posted: May 22, 2007 at 4:22 PM
Did you do work for the dealership, or for the "customer" The dealership sold a job, and paid you to do the job? Sounds to me like they don't give a flyin F about you, and their relationship with you. If it were I, I would make an appoinment with whom ever is in charge of add on sales and ask, then make them a ware of how YOU would have handles the situation.....and politely let them know that you cannot afford to do business with them. Then as a courtesy, make a suggestion as to another shop they might consider with their needs. THEN call said shop, and make them aware of your severed relationship with this dealer.....and why! -------------
Posted By: KarTuneMan
Date Posted: May 22, 2007 at 4:29 PM
Oh... I forgot to say this. Tell them to ki$$ off. I would NOT pay...under any circumstances. (given the information you have provided us here)
-------------
Posted By: JWorm
Date Posted: May 23, 2007 at 12:18 AM
I'm going to look at it from the dealers point of view....
Customer shows up with a fairly new truck they just bought. They tried to use their 12v outlet the other day and it wasn't working. Service department pulls the truck in and discovers the fuse is blown. They put another fuse in...it blows again (due to the short). Everything in the truck is factory, except for the remote starter. Normally, one wouldn't think that a remote starter would have any connection with a fuse for a 12v outlet blowing. The service technician pulls the dash apart to look for a short. He discovers that the metal tab on the relay is causing a short on the power feed to the 12v outlet. At this point, he can do two things:
1: Fix the problem. After he found the problem, it would be an easy fix. A little tape....move the wire out of the way. Put everything back together, and the customer that is probably waiting for his truck can be on his way. Bill the person who caused the problem for the one hour of labor to fix the problem.
2: Pull the truck outside (he has other work to do...he can't tie up his bay until a guy from the remote starter shop come down). Have the servicewriter call the shop and tell them about the problem. Installer finally shows up a couple hours later. Pull the truck back in, show the installer what he screwed up. Installer puts some tape on the wire, moves the relay and puts the dash back together. The service technician still spent billable time on the truck. You would still rightfully get a bill from the dealer, the technician wants to get paid for his time. Customer shows back up at the dealer with the rental the Honda dealership had to give them, swaps vehicles and off he goes.
Now, I supposed the dealership could have called the shop before even pulling the truck in. Conversation probably would have went like this:
Honda: You know that Ridgeline you guys put that remote starter in last week...its 12v outlet is dead. Customer said he changed the fuse, and it blew again. That wouldn't be related to your install, would it?
12v shop: I doubt it. Probably some issue with the factory wiring, or maybe a bad socket. Why do you guys always call me whenever there is a problem with one of your vehicles that I put a remote start in. Next thing you know, you guys are going to be calling me when a car has a headlight or brakelight out. I'm not wasting my time sending my guy down there to look at a problem that more than likely has nothing to do with my install.
Honda: Alright, thanks. I didn't think it would be related. I'll have one of my technicians check it out.
If I was you, I would suck it up and pay the bill. You made a mistake, now you got to pay for it.
Posted By: xtremej
Date Posted: May 23, 2007 at 7:53 AM
I have to disagree on just sucking it up. I just went through a similar experience with new vehicle. My situation read like this I installed a remote many months ago within the last month the customers battery has continually died. She took it to the dealer and the mechanic charged the battery. The second time it died she had it toed again to the same dealer this time they charged the battery and billed as the draw was "directly caused by the remote start system" . She then stops and I schedule her in right away. I test the car for several hours first hour with remote start other ith it completely removed. It remains to have .35 amp draw so I call the customer and she picks up her car to return to the dealer as it is an 06 with factory warranty. Yes it would have been great to just pay the bill and not consume over 3 hours of my time to prove it was not the remote start and the car had a factory equipment problem. Not to mention I still have to re-install the remote start system in which the dealer will be getting billed prior to that. My point is most every dealer is quick to point and rarely are they accurate as most of the tech don't know their ass from a whole in the ground. This is why I would demand that they prove it was in fact your install that caused the short or just lay down and wait for the next bill. Maybe it legit I don't know but I guarntee if anyone starts randomly billing my shop they are in for a suprise. Ultimatley this will be your decision.. Do you do dealer work for these guys in which you have a business realtionship? If so it may be worth just sucking it up and paying it. If you do this I would have a little talk with the service writer and his or her boss and inform them that does not float anymore. I will admit I have had bad luck with a couple of dealers in my area and they have had bad experiences for years with shops in my area so I am biased. This my reasoning for my actions, maybe it just coincidence and a learning lesson for yourself but remember this whatever your decision it will have no affect on my business or anyone else responding to this post. I hope that came out right
Posted By: JWorm
Date Posted: May 23, 2007 at 1:10 PM
xtremej,
A battery draw issue and a pinched wire have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
Did you even read my post, or just jump to the last paragraph? If a dealership called you up and asked you if your remote starter has anything to do with the 12v outlet not working, how would you have responded? How about if a headlight stopped working, you want them calling you up for that as well?
In general, if the problem is obviously caused by the remote starter then the dealership should call you before looking at the car. In the case of the original poster, the problem did not appear related to the remote start install and in that case I would expect them to go looking for the problem themselves.
Posted By: rudydapimp
Date Posted: May 23, 2007 at 1:48 PM
Yea, at the bottom of my buddies check in sheet, there is a right to first access clause. If something goes wrong, they either bring it to us first, or pay someone else to fix it and eat the cost.
Posted By: xtremej
Date Posted: May 23, 2007 at 1:59 PM
Well maybe things are different elsewhere but any dealership with a 100 miles of me blames every problem on anything aftermarket accesories especially remote starts. And to answer your question if a deaelr did call me and ask that yes I would because I am not perfect and have unplugged things (etc..) as I am not perfect, and when it was something unrealted to the remote start I would have sent them to the dealer, can we say customer service. We build in a little for this exact thing, doodie happens when you work on cars. Again I beg to differ on a brand new vehicle and the cig lighter starts blowing fuses after the remote start is installed, hmm simple logic what changed? remote starter or is it because I washed the car or maybe a dog pee'd on the tire....
Posted By: NismaX
Date Posted: May 23, 2007 at 6:13 PM
Thanks for all the replys on this topic.
This is a dealeship that I'd like to keep a decent relationship with. I have been doing their work for a couple of years now. They sell Toyota, Honda, Vovlo, Scion and Hyundai. A good variety of cars. It took them a while to trust my work. This instance just seems to be a wierd circumstance.
I got their bill already. They wanted to charge me for the liter socket too. I called them to mention that wasn't the problem and not my responsibility. They remove that from the charge so now it's only $106.
I think I'm going to go up a bit more on my rates garages around here are getting $75 or so an hour to work on cars. I'm going to $55 an hour.
They really didn't prove their case with me. Handing me the relay tab and a piece of wire alone didn't really prove anything. The wire by the way was a piece I stripped off and it worked itself into the open kick panel. I told them take a picture or something, you need to bear the burdon of proof. I think they found other problems and because the R/S was there they just made it my problem. I'm not usually that careless with my work. I tend to be overly cautious.
For now I'm planning to just pay this one but include a letter about how this is going to be handled in the future. I also had this conversation with the service manager. If they think I need to pay for this than I need to see what is causing the problem personally or I will deny any claim of responsibility. I'm also taking tonyberg's advise on putting that line on the bottom of my receipts from now on.
Thanks for all the replys
Jon
Posted By: tonyberg
Date Posted: May 24, 2007 at 9:35 AM
Like I said that line is a great savior for the independents, as a dealer tech now I dont have to worry about it, but back then it saved me much headache time. Id rather look at a minor problem that wasnt my fault, then not look at a major problem that was
Posted By: lspker
Date Posted: May 25, 2007 at 11:30 PM
We had a problem with a dealer. We had installed a remote start in late model GM truck with LT1 motor. It work for a week, then the truck had problems. The back wiper stayed on and killed the battery. The owner towed it back to the dealer and watched as the tech tried to jump start the truck. The wiper happily kept waving as the dash caught fire. The service advisor instantly blamed the remote starter. The customer came to use explaining that the truck needed a new harness and part of the interior replaced because of smoke. Curiouly, while installing the starter we had notice under the hood a sticker the said do not jump start as this will cause damage. After listening to the service advisor carry on about incompetant installer, being blamed for every thing under the sun, I asked why they jumped started the truck. He answered that it was easier than pushing into the shop, and thier tech did it all the time. I asked if their service tech ever read service mannuals or warning stickers, he responed very loudly they were trained specialists. I handed him the owners mannual opened to the page with the warning about jump starting, and then show him my license to install starter in viehicals (for once a useful government paper) After looking at the burnt wiring, which happened to belong to the trailer towing packed they installed, I suggested he get some compentant help. When I left, the customer was take a strip off the service manager, and the dealership owner. They payed us to reistall the started after repairing the truck.
Posted By: mobilecustoms
Date Posted: May 26, 2007 at 11:46 AM
what truck was this that caught fire?
-------------
Posted By: lspker
Date Posted: May 26, 2007 at 10:40 PM
Posted By: Mike M2
Date Posted: May 27, 2007 at 7:46 AM
Nisma, pay the bill. I go down this road a couple times every month. We are a large Expeditor(30 installers) and have to deal with service advisors constantly. Remember, service and sales are two totally different parts of the dealership, until there's a problem(then everybody knows). Right or wrong, look at the big picture and pay the bill so you are known as the company that cares. The last thing you want to do is get tossed out of the dealership over a couple hundred bucks. When we get a few bills in a row from the same dealership we schedule a meeting with the service manager asking to please contact us when they have an issue and we'll come take a look. Last month i think we set a record of bills paid to dealerships, had to be over $4k. Had to toss a few installers because of it....
-------------
Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services
|