Printer Friendly Forum Posts - viper 160xvl and best buy, problems

I bought and had Best Buy install a Viper 160XVL Remote Starter in my 2003 Jeep Liberty this week. First off, let me say I am very dissapointed, not with the starter, but with Best Buy.

They never hooked up the antigring or valet takeover, using the excuse that they do not hook them up unless requested because if something happens to the RS, you will not be able to start the car even with the key. I let them know how unhappy I am, and have an appointment to get these hooked up with them.

Now, this morning, I start my Jeep when I get up, and by the time I get outsdie about ten minutes later I see that my Jeep is NOT running, but the lights are on confirming it is running, as well as my blower on. When I got to work I looked up the install guide and found that they must not have hooked up the Engine Check, Tach wire/Voltage Sense, Voltage Check, etc.

Now the range issue, this thing is supposed to have a mile range, I am having a hard time getting it to start from 50 yards away, in line of site.

Like I said, I have another appointment with BB, and I am going to bring the rest of these issues to light then. But I am now considering having them take it out, getting my money back, and going to another shop and getting an Autostart. What do you all think, any opinions or suggestions?? Thanks for letting a first time poster vent.

Absolutely right. You should go back and have them fix it. Make sure that you let the GM know what exactly is going on in that bay. I am a senior installer at Best Buy and hate to hear stories like this. Plain and simple, you got shorted on service. The 160XV is a good unit and as a basic Remote Start/Keyless unit does it's job well. The range on these is actually about 1/4 mile, but is easily limited by things like window tint or treated glass. Antenna position if placed correctly is at the top of the glass with the excess cord in the headliner. If any other way, say goodbye to the range.
As far as the antigrind, valet takeover and tach issues, make sure you clearly state you want those items to work. Sometimes installers get in the habit of doing what they would want without asking the customer what they want.
As before, sorry you had a bad experience but give'em a chance to right the wrong before you write us all off.

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BOOSH!!

Anti grind is a great feature and when programed properly, the car will start with it hooked up. The security features have to be turned off in programming.
Some vehicles are harder to find or hook up to tach wire and voltage sensing is usually fine. On older vehicles a tach wire should be used but on newer ones voltage sense is good.

as far as the lights staying on but vehicle not starting, it may be the anti theft not allowing proper starting because of bypass method or technique that was used. Did they use a transponder bypass module with one of your keys? The receiver near ignition might not get the keys transponder code properly and not allow start but ignition stays activated.

Range issue can be caused from a couple issues.
The antenna is placed in a manner that isn't allowing proper signal transfer such as located too close to roof and in the tinted part of windshield. That along with rest of antenna wire bing wound too tightly to itself under dash may cause interference. The proper way to wind excess antenna wire is to coil it in a 3 to 4 inch circle with no sharp bends and tape it so it stays that way. The place should be in the area near the rear view mirror centered and below the tinted part of windshield.
So these should be checked and fixed by them.
As far as the unit Viper 160xvl...it does get 1 mile range but there is a 160xv which is 1/4 mile.
https://www.viper.com/Products/Product.aspx?Productid=115
https://www.viper.com/Products/Product.aspx?Productid=116

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The wire I'm test'n isn't doin' what it's supposed to be doin'... I am so glad I printed that tech sheet, with the wrong info.
Do it right the first time... or I might have to fix it for ya

so as a senior installer at best buy you should know that the NEW viper 160 claims upto a one mile range. and why get the GM involved straight of the get go? keep everything at the lowest level. maybe the senior wasn't aware that the installer cuts corners. IF the install senior doesn't seem very helpful then ask for his manager (which is the Services Manager). they know a bit more about whats going on then others.

as for the install itself. . . antigrind most likely wasn't hooked up because the jeep liberty should have OEM antigrind. every liberty i've done has been this way. with OEM antigrind the only benefit of the viper antigrind is a starterkill with the security features which is only triggered when the viper sees ignition when it's locked. because of that, that's prolly why the vehicle is also on voltage sense instead of tach. just set the crank time to something such as 1.5 seconds or 2 seconds. they might not have adjusted the crank time and turned engine checking off. so the truck tried to start but didn't crank long enough and the viper isn't checking to "see" if the vehicle had started. or a bypass issue and the viper again isn't checking to see if the vehicle started. valet takeover? you mean didn't install the valet switch or you can't do key takeover? explain. lastly for the range, it may be because the installer balled up the antenna cable slack or it may be the unit. we had an issue last week of a suburban with a viper 771 that had great range until the relay pack saw the ignition on. then you were lucky if it responded within a few feet of the antenna. we swapped the 771 antenna, cable, brain, relay pack, ribbon harness. same problem. only guess was something in the vehicle that came on with the ignition interfered with the reception. worked out a price deal with him and upgraded him to a viper 791 (SST instead) and all was well.

Thanks for the replies. I called back this afternoon and they could not get me a sooner appointment, next week at the earliest. So I did call back and talked to the manager and they are going to *fix* it tomorrow night.

To answer a couple of your questions:

It does not have the module for a transponder key, I have the black key, no chip.

Valet take over - when your in your unning vehicle and want to take the keys out to run in the store. You hit the remote start button, take your keys out of the ignition and it stays running.

There also is no valet switch, that I can see, they may have buried it way up under the dash.

Again, thanks for the replies, please keep any suggestions coming before I see them tomorrow.

Jmatteau

your valet take over is built into the unit, nothing extra to add on or connect. when the vehicle is running, simply hit the asterisk button twice. wait a few seconds then pull out your key. if you have the parking/headlights off with the switch then the parking lights lights should come on or start flashing (depending on what they programmed it pt do) when the remote start takes over.

another-kelly wrote:

your valet take over is built into the unit, nothing extra to add on or connect. when the vehicle is running, simply hit the asterisk button twice. wait a few seconds then pull out your key. if you have the parking/headlights off with the switch then the parking lights lights should come on or start flashing (depending on what they programmed it pt do) when the remote start takes over.

It does not work. when I talked to the tech on the phone, he said he never hooks that up "because if the remote starter were to go bad, you would not be able to start your car even with the key."

So, they are supposedly going to hook this up when I bring it in tonight and address the rest of the problems.

Another issue I am having now is the range of the remote. Like I said, I can barely get it to work from about 50 yards away, in direct line of sight. That is really bugging me, but I don't want to rant all day. Thanks again for the replies.

jmatteau wrote:

It does not work. when I talked to the tech on the phone, he said he never hooks that up "because if the remote starter were to go bad, you would not be able to start your car even with the key."

that's the starter kill/anti-grind. remote start take over is nothing extra to hook up. kindalike how when you buy a tv, your remote just works with it. nothing extra to do (other than batteries of course)

another-kelly wrote:

jmatteau wrote:

It does not work. when I talked to the tech on the phone, he said he never hooks that up "because if the remote starter were to go bad, you would not be able to start your car even with the key."

that's the starter kill/anti-grind. remote start take over is nothing extra to hook up. kindalike how when you buy a tv, your remote just works with it. nothing extra to do (other than batteries of course)

That's interesting, kinda has me wondering if I got a bad unit. For any of you that sell these, how does it come boxed? My box did look like it could have been opened at one point. There was no tape holding it closed, just a little white paper sticker holding it closed. I opened it and the brain was in plastic, the remotes were not, but I did not look close enough to see if the plastic was sealed or anything.

I just went out tried again for haha's. the Valet take over did work this time. That makes me feel a little better about that.

jmatteau wrote:

They never hooked up the antigring or valet takeover, using the excuse that they do not hook them up unless requested because if something happens to the RS, you will not be able to start the car even with the key. I let them know how unhappy I am, and have an appointment to get these hooked up with them..

They don't hook up a "common feature" that is well recommended.....just in case? They seemingly have LITTLE FAITH in their product!

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jmatteau wrote:

Now, this morning, I start my Jeep when I get up, and by the time I get outsdie about ten minutes later I see that my Jeep is NOT running, but the lights are on confirming it is running, as well as my blower on. When I got to work I looked up the install guide and found that they must not have hooked up the Engine Check, Tach wire/Voltage Sense, Voltage Check, etc.

I don't know everything.... and have NEVER claimed to, (heres proof) WHY would the ign. and accs. all be lit up with the heater blowin.....if the engine was not running? HOW could this happen. If there is no tach signal, the unit SHOULD shut down. Every unit I have ever installed operated this way. There would be NO WAY to come out to the vehicle, and have it all up, and NOT running.

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only crappy units would do that. like generic units, they rely on oil pressure and most cars the light doesnt go out for a while, so some guys just connect it to the ACC and when it starts it fails and the uinit stays on anyways it thinks its on

I have 2 words to reply here

BEST BUY

I've un best buyed a few cars.

I don't understand why people still go to the big box stores

FYI...the DEI products have a programmable option to 'ignore' whether or not the vehicle is running. To be honest I do not know what the practical application for this would be as I have never come across a need to use it. I do not know why any installer would have turned off the vehicle monitoring feature, especially in your 03 Jeep. It should be hooked up as tachometer monitoring.

voluster wrote:

I have 2 words to reply here

BEST BUY

I've un best buyed a few cars.

I don't understand why people still go to the big box stores

You can not classify all big box stores in the same category. It is possible that the Best Buy in your area has some installers that are not very good but you can not classify them all into that category. Although I never worked in a big box store, when I was in the industry I worked for an independent shop and when we hired installers not all of them were truly qualified to do what their resumes claimed they could do. We did however have pretty good luck with installers that left the big box stores for our shop. It truly depends on the person, not the store.

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Installer, IT support, and FFL. I need less hobbies.

jmatteau wrote:

Thanks for the replies. I called back this afternoon and they could not get me a sooner appointment, next week at the earliest. So I did call back and talked to the manager and they are going to *fix* it tomorrow night.
Jmatteau

Wow. It's only human to make an error and have the car not work.......I know of no installer who has a 0% comeback rate.

BUT, if you were my customer, and you called me, my response would be "How soon can you get back here? I want to make it right." Or it's likely I'd even come to you.

That's horrendous customer service to push you off like that.

Amen! The customer's happiness will equal how much work they will eventually send you.

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The wire I'm test'n isn't doin' what it's supposed to be doin'... I am so glad I printed that tech sheet, with the wrong info.
Do it right the first time... or I might have to fix it for ya

Well, I went in last night and the guy working on it was great. He seemed sincere and wanted to help. I explained to him that if they would have taken the time to go over the features and unit with me before and after installation, this would have never happened, that when I got home and started finding things on my own,that did not make me happy at all. He agreed.

The tach was hooked up, but they set the threshold to Low and re-learned it. They hooked up the valet switch and lights, hooked up the horn and a few little other odds and ends.

Here is another question for you all. The unit is hooked up to tach, they did not want to turn on the check engine feature stating that the unit thinks the car did not start and continues to grind the starter. They stated that does not happen all time, but enough that it causes problems. They said because the module is not OEM and made for a specific vehicle, it gets confused. I call BS on this, but what is the deal? I was thinking of programming it on via the valet button (provided they do not have it locked) and trying it for myself.

Thanks.

Oh, and as far as the crappy range, they had no advise on that. Just staed it is hooked up and ran correctly and it is a brand new product line so Viper may be misrepresenting its range. But 50 yards is not satisfactory for range, I need to start looking into this for myself I guess and check out if they have the wire all rolled up tight. He mentioned it is "balled up in the A pillar like it is supposed to be".

I am glad to hear that they have tried to make things right by you.

BUT: Does that sound right to you? A huge company like DEI making false claims on their products is just total BS. That product is not that new, yes it was only recently released for sale but it was development for YEARS and the release of it was pushed back several times.

I have NEVER turned off engine checking, that just makes no sense to me at all. The engine checking being off is why your lights and accessories were on when you got to the vehicle and found it was not running. This truly makes no sense to me as to why they would turn the engine checking off. The manual for the 160 is in the downloads section, you can turn the feature back on easily.

50 yards is NOT acceptable. The antenna wire is not to be balled up anywhere, it is to be run straight out, NOT balled up. It should be fully extended, never wrapped up in a ball. Simply extending this wire out properly will increase your range.

That unit claims 1 mile operating range and you should get at least close to that much better than 150'. The reason you pay more for that model instead of the cheaper model is because of range. 150' is easily achievable with the non-sst units. I have the Python version of the same system in my personal truck, I just swapped it out from an older system and the range on it is down right impressive. I have never walked it out to see if I get the full 5280' but I have been over 2K feet away and started the truck with no problems. I would try turning off the code hopping (option 1-16) and see if your range increases. Keep in mind that there are a lot of factors that affect the operating range of these systems, like weather, buildings, radio frequencies in the area, etc but you should still get better than what you are claiming.

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Installer, IT support, and FFL. I need less hobbies.

I've un circuit citied, electronic expressed and other places too, and i'm a best buy installer, It just depends on the installer and quality of the bay. It probably has a limit on how long it'll stay started, usually 10 min? Doesn't explain why the blower and headlights were on though.

-Nick

sqall12001 wrote:

I've un circuit citied, electronic expressed and other places too, and i'm a best buy installer, It just depends on the installer and quality of the bay. It probably has a limit on how long it'll stay started, usually 10 min? Doesn't explain why the blower and headlights were on though.

-Nick

It is on a 24 minute timer, wasn't that. The engine check was not and still is not on.

[QUOTE=Twelvoltz]FYI...the DEI products have a programmable option to 'ignore' whether or not the vehicle is running. To be honest I do not know what the practical application for this would be as I have never come across a need to use it. I do not know why any installer would have turned off the vehicle monitoring feature, especially in your 03 Jeep. It should be hooked up as tachometer monitoring.

I installed a viper 771 into a 06 Prius. I had to shut the engine checking off, because unless the gas engine turned on, it couldn't read a tach or voltage signal. There are some instances where you need to do this, very rare instances but still.

mobile1 wrote:

I installed a viper 771 into a 06 Prius. I had to shut the engine checking off, because unless the gas engine turned on, it couldn't read a tach or voltage signal. There are some instances where you need to do this, very rare instances but still.

Very valid point, if the car's computer takes over completely I could see turning off the engine checking. Or in this case, a Hybrid that has no true voltage or tachometer increase. I have yet to do a Hybrid so in my experience no need yet, but yes that is a very valid example of the use of needing to turn that feature off.

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Installer, IT support, and FFL. I need less hobbies.

Twelvoltz wrote:

mobile1 wrote:

I installed a viper 771 into a 06 Prius. I had to shut the engine checking off, because unless the gas engine turned on, it couldn't read a tach or voltage signal. There are some instances where you need to do this, very rare instances but still.

Very valid point, if the car's computer takes over completely I could see turning off the engine checking. Or in this case, a Hybrid that has no true voltage or tachometer increase. I have yet to do a Hybrid so in my experience no need yet, but yes that is a very valid example of the use of needing to turn that feature off.

05+ ford superduties need engine check turned off and 4 second crank turned on. voltage sense doesn't work and it won't use tach on that vehicle.

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Shaughn Murley
Install Manager, Dealer Services
Visions Electronics
Red Deer, Alberta

If you can "trick a hybrid" or actually do it, make it think the a/c is on and the gas engine will start ;)

-Nick

Well, still getting poor range so I took a look for myself just now. The antenna wire was all coiled up tight, so I cut the zip tie and straightened it out. Then I checked the ground for the RS. It has 4 ohm's to the battery, not 0 or 1, but 4 should not be to bad right? I looked around under the kick panel and I cannot find a better ground than that. What say you?

try regrouding it. 4 ohms? that is sure alot for a ground spot. make sure its all metal chassis area clean of paint and any residue, and use a BOLT or an area that has a factory bolt. drilling ur own isnt always best cuz u might hit sumthing so jsut find a factory bolt, put a o ring around the ground wire and ground that badboy and thats it.

there are plenty of small specialty stores out there that are just as bad as best buy or circuit city. I don't have either of those stores here so i cannot comment on installers at them, but i'm sure some stores have inexperienced installers. I've taken out many many remote starters coming from the lower48 that were an abomination. Every install coming from the states has been horrible from the units i've seen. maybe you should just come to alaska where we do it right. posted_image

anyway, the antenna cord should never ever ever be ziptied in a coil. the zip tie pinches the wires inside the antenna cords and can severely limit range. any excess slack on the antenna should be strung across the top of the windshield under the headliner to get maximum range. also if you have tint on your windshield, even the eyebrow, you should have the antenna mounted below that line.

re-ground that unit. 4ohms is high. a good ground must be on a painted surface (with the paint scuffed away) so that you can make a good electrical connection to it. it also must not be on a secondary body surface, such as a brace that is spot welded to the body.

extreme1, you can goto the crank positioning sensor for tach on the newer ford diesels.

I stretched the antenna wire out straight under the kick panel, will try to get it in the headliner when we get another nice day. As far as the ground, there is nothing else under there I can see to ground it to. Again, when w get a nice day, I will have to dig around more.

I could just bring it back to BB, but honestly, I am sick of them (this store not all). It was a sloppy install, unit just zip tied in place to the wire harness, antenna wire, service, ground, etc. At this point I will just work on finishing it up myself.

I am going to take pictures hopefully tomorrow and try to get my money back, or at least a partial refund.

pictures would be cool posted_image

One thing.....I understand you are tired of the hassle of returning to the store. You might need to come to a decision............ have them remove it, or deal with it, and continue playing with it yourself.

They (the box store) might come to the point were THEY are tired of dealing with it as well. You can only get into this install so many times and have them be OK with it. So be carefull , the more you

play with the install, the closer you might get to them telling you they are done! Sad but true.

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Sorry, I never did get around to getting back in their to take pics.

I did however bring it in for a third time and they finally swapped the brain. Seemed that fixed just about everything. The only problem I still have is once in a great while it will shut down right after starting. When that happens and I run the diagnostics I get 4 flashes for transmitter shutdown or optional push button. I do not have a push button and do not shut it down via the remote, so I have no idea what is going on there. It does not happen very often, maybe 1 out of a hundred times, but still weird.

Sorry to hear about your issues with a Best Buy install , however I am glad to hear that most all of the issues have been resolved with the replacement of the brain. I have worked as an installer off and on with Best Buy over the last 10 years with a total of approx. 7 years in with the Company. I pride myself in doing quality work and I expect the same out of those I work with. With that being said, I've had quite a bit of experience with DEI products in Chrysler Vehicles and I've noticed this issue of them not starting on the first try, and I've resolved this by resetting the tach signal while raising the rpm of the motor approx 500rpm. Try that out and see if that takes care of the issue. If you cant or dont want to do this your self, take it to best buy and have them do it. While your there, tell the Aaron from store 22 in Davenport Iowa says to quit doing half ***ed work .

Aaron

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Install it like everyone will see EVERY part of it.