push to start button using remote start

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=99749
Printed Date: April 25, 2024 at 4:13 AM

Topic: push to start button using remote start

Posted By: chrisnelsonmn
Subject: push to start button using remote start
Date Posted: December 07, 2007 at 9:14 AM

I have a 1985 Pontiac Fiero, it is the easiest vehicle in the world to wire into because it is basic GM super-simple wiring.

Anyway, I'd like to install the new Compustar Pro P2WSSR with full alarm system and remote start.

My question is, is there a negative or positive input on that remote start to wire a push button switch to to turn it on and start the vehicle, or would you simply have to solder onto an extra remote and hide it in the installation?

Thanks for your help!

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Replies:

Posted By: chrisnelsonmn
Date Posted: December 07, 2007 at 9:41 AM

So I think there is a negative input on an AstroStart that will perform the startup feature, and then I could use a pulse after start negative pulse to engage a set of latching relays to keep the vehicle running as long as I want it to after the AstroStart timer has shut down.

Does Compustar have a similar feature? Negative input startup?

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Posted By: wrenches
Date Posted: December 07, 2007 at 8:00 PM

I'm not sure of the wire colour, but is the temp sensor wire. Negative trigger if I remember correctly.

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Think. It's not illegal yet.

Posted By: chrisnelsonmn
Date Posted: December 08, 2007 at 2:39 AM

Ok, I've pretty much figured out how to do this:

1. Use a push to start button to activate the negative trigger input on the remote start to turn on the starter. That way the remote start initiates the startup sequence correctly.

2. Use a "pulse after startup" wire to turn on 4 latching relays to control the ignition wires AFTER the remote system startup.

3. When the brake is applied, the remote start turns off, but the latching relays still keep the car running.

4. When the "push to start" button is pushed a second time, it disengages the latched relays and the car shuts down.

The only thing that I haven't quite figured out yet is how to make it actually secure. At this point anyone could walk up to it and hit the button and start it and drive away. Even if it is armed and locked, because if they break in and hit the button, the remote start tells the security sytem that it is OK to operate.

Maybe I could use a seperate security system all together as a piggyback system ONLY to offer security to the push to start button system.

OR

I could incorporate some type of RFID tag system... Hmmm, this could get tricky.

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Posted By: Chris Luongo
Date Posted: December 08, 2007 at 9:23 AM

I think Crimestopper has an "infinity run" mode............ that is, you can choose your typical runtime of say, 10, 15, or 20 minutes, but then there's another option that just keeps the remote starter turned on forever.

You could install a Crimestopper, and then put a toggle switch to interrupt the remote starter's brake input.......as long as it doesn't see power on the brake wire, it'll keep going forever.

Only two downsides to this setup:

1. While driving, you're relying on the quality of the remote starter, and the quality of your installation work......if either should fail, the car will shut down, not a good thing if you're on the highway.

2. As long as the remote starter is on, the parking lights will be on too. You install a second toggle switch to disable the parking light output of the alarm......or buy a double-pole, single throw switch........you could flip the same switch to kill the brake wire, and kill the parking lights at the same time.

What is it you're trying to do? Make the car so you can drive it without keys? You're still going to have to do something about the steering wheel and gearshift locks.

P.S. Whatever you do, I would also keep the original key-based ignition system in place, so you can still drive if your setup fails.

Posted By: chrisnelsonmn
Date Posted: December 13, 2007 at 8:45 PM

Looks like I can get a genuine OEM S2000 start button on Ebay for $40
https:////JDM-S2000-engine-start-button-MAZDA-CIVIC-TOYOTA-HONDA_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33691QQihZ018QQitemZ280182066265QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I'm going to try it on my Civic soon to figure out the best way to do this.

Posted By: chrisnelsonmn
Date Posted: December 13, 2007 at 8:48 PM

Chris Luongo wrote:

1. While driving, you're relying on the quality of the remote starter, and the quality of your installation work......if either should fail, the car will shut down, not a good thing if you're on the highway.

2. As long as the remote starter is on, the parking lights will be on too. You install a second toggle switch to disable the parking light output of the alarm......or buy a double-pole, single throw switch........you could flip the same switch to kill the brake wire, and kill the parking lights at the same time.

What is it you're trying to do? Make the car so you can drive it without keys? You're still going to have to do something about the steering wheel and gearshift locks.

P.S. Whatever you do, I would also keep the original key-based ignition system in place, so you can still drive if your setup fails.

1. I'm a little concerned about the first part of your reply... I agree with you. I'm hoping though that by using good quality components, it should hold up OK. I'll have to see how hot the relays get by using them for long periods of time...

2. I'm going to be using latching relays to keep the ignition system energized after I hit the brake to shut off the remote start system. Also, these latching relays will be able to be turned off with the push of the start button again some how...

3. I'm going to disable the steering wheel lock.

4. I guess you're right about keeping the ignition cylinder in tact just in case... But this will be so cool if I could get rid of it! But, you're probably right... we'll see how it goes.

Posted By: chadwa2003
Date Posted: December 14, 2007 at 8:33 AM

There should be a pink wire on the secondary harness which is a negative trigger start wire.

Posted By: chrisnelsonmn
Date Posted: December 15, 2007 at 8:23 PM

I installed the entire works into my '92 civic tonight just for trying it all out and stuff, but I have 2 issues with it so far:

1. Steering Wheel Lock - I don't know how to remove it

2. Needs 2 buttons - One for start, and one for stop. - I need to figure out how to do one button that can turn it on AND off...

Posted By: peterubers
Date Posted: December 16, 2007 at 4:42 PM

1. i've never seen anyone successfully remove the steering wheel lock... keep us updated on that one...

2. use a latching relay circuit -- one input latches it, a second input unlatches it .. the diagram is on this great site

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The search function is your friend.

Posted By: chrisnelsonmn
Date Posted: December 17, 2007 at 1:28 PM

Ok, some updates, first the nasty pictures:
posted_image

The relays from left to right in the first picture are labeled:
push button kill - On - Off - Ign - Ign - Acc - Acc

I am using two buttons to control the system. The "ON" button simply triggers the negative input on the remote start to initiate the startup sequence. The "OFF" button triggers a relay that cuts power to the latching relays which turns off the car.

STEERING WHEEL LOCK:
I purchased a steering wheel lock plate removal tool for $20 at the local parts store and this week sometime I will be removing the lock mechanism.

Also, I installed new power door lock solenoids so that when the car is locked, the push button is disabled.

Posted By: chrisnelsonmn
Date Posted: December 17, 2007 at 1:44 PM

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND! :)

This is all just a "rough draft" of this project. I am using my '92 Civic as a test bed, and when I get all of the kinks worked out and the system operating as I want it to I will be installing this system on a brand new Compustar P2WSSR and a factory Honda S2000 start button.

Here's the car it is going into when I get the bugs worked out:
posted_image

1985 Pontiac Fiero with 45,000 original miles. This car has a 3.4L V6 installed from a '95 Camaro, and it is a lot of fun to drive! :) Hopefully this modification will make it even more fun to drive!

Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: December 17, 2007 at 2:46 PM

Cool project, keep us updated.

There are a couple ways to dictate if the pushbutton turns on or off the system. One way would be using the brake (or clutch) switch. if the brake is pushed in it will start, if it isn't pushed in, it will stop.

Use a frequency switch to detect when the fuel injectors are firing. If the fuel injectors are firing then the pushbutton becomes an 'off' button, otherwise it is an 'on' button.

Use the fuel pump control circuit as a reference. You can determine if the motor is running if the fuel pump is running. However, most EFI systems prime the pump once the ignition is turned on, so you may have to work out some details.

The best bet would be a frequency switch that would detect when the car is running regardless of other conditions. This is what I used on my pushbutton start system in my G35!

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Kevin Pierson

Posted By: chrisnelsonmn
Date Posted: December 17, 2007 at 4:27 PM

Holy crap, you're a genius!

I looked it up and for about $30 I can get this:
posted_image

Like you said, I can have the normally closed contacts feed the start input on the remote start, and the normally open contacts (activated by a tachometer signal) trigger the shut down circuit.

BRILLIANT!

...]

>Frequency Switch

Ref: High Performance Electronic Projects for Cars - Silicon Chip Publications.
This is a great module which can be adapted to suit a range of different applications. It uses a standard tacho, road speed, or many other pulse outputs to switch a relay. The switch frequency can be set to trip when it is rising or falling, and it features adjustable hysteresis (the difference between trigger on/off frequency). You could configure it to trigger water spray cooling on deceleration, shift light activation, adjustable aerodynamics based on speed, intake manifold switching and much more. Kit supplied with PCB, and all electronic components.

Posted By: chrisnelsonmn
Date Posted: December 17, 2007 at 5:25 PM

Maybe this would be better from Summit:

Basically a relay triggered by RPM level.
https://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM-830449

This way, the normally closed circuit will direct the output of the push to start button to the remote start, and then after the engine starts, the rpm switch is triggered and then the normally open post on the relay then connects directly to the shut down relay.

VOILA!

Posted By: chrisnelsonmn
Date Posted: December 17, 2007 at 5:27 PM

I'm beginning to think that I may need this type of switch in a momentary design

That way after I start the car, I can cover the switch to prevent accidental ignition shut down.

Posted By: chrisnelsonmn
Date Posted: December 17, 2007 at 8:24 PM

this is the solution!

think geek rfid kit

Posted By: chrisnelsonmn
Date Posted: December 17, 2007 at 9:32 PM

OK, I got it all figured out!!! I did the deed tonight and took pics along the way:

1. Because I was dealing with the air bag system, I unhooked the battery and let the car sit for 20 minutes just in case. I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to factory air bag systems.

2. First step was easy, just gotta undo a couple screws and get that airbag out of the way.

3. Didn't need a steering wheel puller for this one. Just popped right off.

4. Used a marker to make some alignment marks because this part spins really easily. Then just took out the couple screws to get to the next part:

5. The next part (turn signal and wiper stalks) just slid right off as an assembly after unscrewing them:

6. I found that the actual lock on this one is spring loaded under the column, and to get it off I had to undo 2 bolts that had been manufactured to be completely rounded off after installing them to prevent this type of activity. So I lowered the column by unbolting it and went to town with my Easy-Out drill set:

Once I got the holes drilled, they came out very easily.

7. In this picture you can see the actual lock mechanism. It moves up and down when you turn the key on and off:

8. I was originally just going to disable it by putting a piece of metal between the lock and the column. Went with a piece of a pop can folded onto itself:

9. After that I reassembled it and it worked FLAWLESSLY!

10. BUT, I changed my mind and decided I did not want the ignition cylinder in there at all, so I just pulled it out again and reassembled everything with my switches in place:

11. Now I needed somewhere to hide the old ignition cylinder so I disconnected the 2 wire harnesses from it and tucked them up under the dash so noone can find them.

WORKS LIKE A CHARM!!

Posted By: claudio12401
Date Posted: December 17, 2007 at 9:44 PM

That is pretty cool. The lit up toggle switch board would have been sweet looking but it looks like you did an awesome job.

Posted By: chrisnelsonmn
Date Posted: December 17, 2007 at 9:47 PM

Thank you very much! I might simply block off the original ignition cylinder hole all together and install the lit toggle switch in a different location.

You see, if I go with a single push button switch like what the Honda S2000 uses, I'd be worried about possibly bumping it while driving and shutting the car down, or a passenger may think it's funny to do.

but using a covered momentary switch instead would make me feel a lot better!

Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: December 17, 2007 at 10:12 PM

Yeah, its definately nice having a slight delay in the button before the motor shuts off. That prevents me from accidently shutting the car off by bumping it and gives me a chance to stop people if they get nosey. My button, however, is located in an area that would be very unlikely for a passenger to touch (against the center console on the drivers side).
The S2000 button is OK, but there are much better buttons out there (Nissan, Mazda, etc.). You've came along way, it will be cool to see how you finish it up.

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Kevin Pierson

Posted By: chrisnelsonmn
Date Posted: December 17, 2007 at 11:28 PM

Nissan/Infiniti push button:

S2000 push button:

Toyota push button (not a good pic):

I think all of the OEM setups use the brake pedal as a requirement to starting the car. Not sure if I want to go this route or not...