Print Page | Close Window

electrical info herein often wrong

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Miscellaneous - Off Topic
Forum Discription: Topics that just don't fit anywhere else.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=115000
Printed Date: May 02, 2024 at 1:37 PM


Topic: electrical info herein often wrong

Posted By: sparkinark
Subject: electrical info herein often wrong
Date Posted: July 11, 2009 at 7:46 AM

First let me say this is a very, very helpful site in almost every respect and is why I almost cannot live without Internet access anymore. 

My comments are from an EE with many years of experience in almost all areas of electrical engineering, and I've worked in areas from far-infrared FLIR systems for the HARM missile and on the synthetic aperture radar system on the (F22?  This was back in 1992 so the fact that the jet is still not in full production is rather amazing to me) to antenna design, home audio design including crossovers and power amps, home-wiring problems (the very low chip voltages and high heat of the new SMT boards is killing everything due to inadequate circuit layouts and shared neutrals).

Anyway, not a condemnation, but when I saw you mention 3rd order crossovers I knew something was wrong.  There is a huge compendium of IEEE papers from the '20s to near present day and 3rd order crossovers have pretty much been laid to rest and nails put in the coffin.

Also, wattage does not determine minimum wire size, nor does current actually;  one has to look as well at the heat factors of the insulation as well as what type of load is being draw (e.g. cranking your car is not the same as running a 10000 watt kill-your-ears stereo system.  Also, a zoebel is used mainly for two reasons:  one is to change the (seen) imput impedance and dampen an otherwise unstable system (I run into this when very good and highly inductive or capacative wiring is used with amps that have ratings like 100 watts [into a dummy 8 ohm non-reactive load) while the rating at 6 ohm loads, usually not mentioned, is like 120 watts).  In other words, they are probably more like 20 watt nominal into a reactive load and are designked to just play loud with a very low slew rate.

The other use, a home-cookbook fix, is to allay the inherent Z rise of a midrange speaker or (sometimes) a tweeter or to try to knock down from infinity the resonant point when it's within the working parameters of the system.

Be careful what  you say if you have to over-simplify it:  EMF is *NOT* in any instance a simple application of Ohms law.  It's a phenomenom, like heat or gravity, and is part of the energy-matter spectrum.

As Thomas Hobbes once said:  When you marry an ideal, reality moves in as the harshest of relatives.  I'm constantly surprised myself by how, say, a simple corner-loaded waveguide resonator can make a usb wifi "n" dongle outperform a 10 element yagi.

sparkinark / ShawnHarveyt



-------------
sparkinark / Shawn Harvey -- EE



Replies:

Posted By: KarTuneMan
Date Posted: July 14, 2009 at 9:41 PM
Sometimes when I read things..... I don't feel so smart..... THIS is one of those times!posted_image

-------------




Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: July 14, 2009 at 10:09 PM




Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: July 18, 2009 at 5:38 PM

KarTuneMan wrote:

Sometimes when I read things..... I don't feel so smart..... THIS is one of those times!posted_image

if you can feel that way mr KTM, imagine how i must have felt,lol, posted_image



-------------
COMMIT YOUR WAY TO JEHOVAH AND HE WILL ACT IN YOUR BEHALF. PSALMS 37:5




Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: July 18, 2009 at 8:28 PM

Considering cross over design of any magnitude is extremly limited on this site I would say your title is wrong.

Most of the electrical info on this site IS ACCURATE.  There may be some misleading information here and there, but for the most part, the12volt is an extremely reliable source for 12vdc electrical info.



-------------
Kevin Pierson




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: July 19, 2009 at 1:00 PM
Oh how glad am I I so rarely do audio these days, all I remember is that speaker impedance can change. I might also add that I thought the title misleading. I'm used to working on vehicles this side of the pond with info from the US, it's amazing how many differences there are, so like most good people here, I believe nothing I'm told and check everything. That's what I thought our poster was refering to.




Posted By: tommy...
Date Posted: July 19, 2009 at 6:27 PM
Ive never been so confused...Title and contents...?? Anyway as Little John said...WWWWHHHHHAAAATTTTTTT....

-------------
M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!




Posted By: tommy...
Date Posted: July 19, 2009 at 6:30 PM
Maybe add some links to wrong info...To help out the next EE...?

-------------
M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!




Posted By: lspker
Date Posted: July 19, 2009 at 8:58 PM
Euro fighter flying, F22 electrical nightmare.  Mig built like tractor works great.  May be overengeering not so good.   Some info presented here is based on "accepted" standards (short cuts) that work.  Not very thing needs to be calculated to fifty decimal places to work and go over buget.




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: July 20, 2009 at 2:59 AM
Ispkr you are so right.  Frankly for most audio work,  basic wiring knowledge, ohms law, inductive interferance, are all you basically need. Sorry,  not to question certain people here who I admire for their specialised knowledge which I always find most interesting. There is a recession on right now and in my neck of the woods, super quality aftermarket work has long vanished, it's the £100 + labour amp, sub and box market. Re the F22 reference, nowt wrong, its kill ratio is the right circumstances is probably 300 Su 30 to one. It's the bloody software, too complicated, US won't release it, special ref to F35, UK is joint 1st. tier builder, Israelis won't take it with US hardware or software, they'd rather develop their own and this is what's happenning with cars, change a lightbulb on the latest Mercedes?  Yeah right




Posted By: robertsc
Date Posted: July 22, 2009 at 10:16 PM

I can spot the problem there is not enough theory .

You see when your an engineer ,you make things your way because you know how smart you are

and you have a piece of paper on the wall to prove it.

Reality is that most of you's need to be required to work on your own designs before they allowed into production.

Being  that if you are required to ipliment what you put on paper you will then realize how flawed your work is.

I know from working on many cars theres alot of engineers I would put up for target practice.





Posted By: tommy...
Date Posted: July 23, 2009 at 8:41 AM
I heard they just cut funding for the f-22's...Totally elimanated it from the bill...Was suppose to build seven more... I think McCain was part of that...

-------------
M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: July 23, 2009 at 2:54 PM
OK, they were only going to build another 13 or so anyway, but what happens in 10 or 15 years when the russians or Chiniese come up with an equivalent, or that the Japanese Israelis and Aussies are screaming for them? What will happen is the world Hi-tech leaders, the Israels will say screw you to the Obama Government, and build their own UCAVs then sell them to anyone. Well at least the NATO countries, India etc. In 1946, the US Government made the UK give Russia (or as was the USSR) the manufacturing blueprints for the Jet Engine. The rest is History, Mig 15s in Korea etc. etc.




Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: August 03, 2009 at 9:42 PM
i agree with mr.robertsc.





Print Page | Close Window