relay to make n/c into n/o output trigger
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Forum Name: Relays
Forum Discription: Relay Diagrams, SPDT Relays, SPST Relays, DPDT Relays, Latching Relays, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=1752
Printed Date: July 27, 2025 at 6:17 AM
Topic: relay to make n/c into n/o output trigger
Posted By: GlassWolf
Subject: relay to make n/c into n/o output trigger
Date Posted: July 07, 2002 at 5:01 AM
Okay here's the deal:
I have a Jeep
I have a car alarm which has both n/o and n/c triggers in it's built-in relay for locking the doors when armed and after putting keys into the ignition.
I have 2 power window roll-up modules with 500mA activation triggers (neg) and accessory leads (to prevent trigger when car is in use)
problem:
door locks and window modules both trigger by way of the normally open, closed @ lock lead on the alarm. (GREEN/ Black wire) However, the window module is causing me nightmares. when it's connected I have the following problems:
-once doors are closed, doors lock and refuse to release their locked state till keys are removed.
windows roll up when doors are closed.. etc etc
attempted solutions:
isolated window module completely by placing an isolating 1n4004 diode on both activation AND accessory leads. no joy, same promlem (how the locks and alarm even SEE the window module at that point is frickin' beyond me.. the diodes should make that damned thing invisible to eveything but the windows)
various other ideas none of which worked.
Okay here's what I want to try. In an attempt to completely isolate the window modules from the door locks so they have NOTHING to do with one another aside from both being tied into the alarm, I propose the following:
using a relay, take the alarm relay's normally-CLOSED-open @ lock output (neg) and convert it into the same as the GREEN/ black output (n/o, closed @ lock) and let the windows use that trigger, and let the door locks use the normal trigger.. thus letting them not see each other even at the alarm.
QUESTION:
how do I wire a relay to switch from a n/c circuit to one that is n/o, then tie in the 500mA activation line from the window modules to that relay so that upon arming the alarm, when it sends it's pulse to the door locks, the n/c wire (violet/black) will trip the relay, reversing it's actual state for the window module so that in the end, both the violet/black and the GREEN/ black wires from the alarm relay will appear to be n/o, closed @ lock.
make sense? good! now how is it done? this is starting to really, REALLY piss me off. haha
thanks :)
-------------
-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Replies:
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: July 07, 2002 at 11:28 PM
Sorry, but I have to get some answers to my question ( it's late and I'm not thinking too straight ) but this will help me when I'm more awake: - Is the door locks and the window triggers on the same wire coming from the alarm ?
- If so, why ?? Do you want the windows to go up when armed ? or do you want to manually press a button for them to go down ?
- If not, then what module are you using for the window roll up ?
- How about the alarm system that your using ?
------------- Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: July 08, 2002 at 3:26 PM
Is the door locks and the window triggers on the same wire coming from the alarm ?
yes, and because that is the only negative on armed trigger from the BCM.
If so, why ?? Do you want the windows to go up when armed ?
exactly why. when I arm the alarm i want all 4 windows to roll up. therefore both window modules are tied into the door-lock on arm trigger. both of my aux functions are in use already and I want it to be done on-arm as this was put in primarily for my mom who is forgetful and religiously arms the alarm but forgets and leaves the back windows down sometimes heh
If not, then what module are you using for the window roll up ?
I have two generic window roll-up modules (2 windows each) wired into an ungo MS2004 alarm.
This is in my 94 grand cherokee.
I figured if I can reverse the n/c output of the doorlock relay built into the alarm, it'll give me a second isolated trigger for the window modules so they'll quit causing me nightmares with the door locks.
-------------
-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: July 08, 2002 at 3:32 PM
this may help:
MS2004 wiring harness/codes:
RED Main Power +12V input
BROWN Siren +12V output
WHITE Parking Light Flash Relay +12V output
YELLOW/BLUE Auxiliary Function-2 (-) output
BLUE/WHITE Driver’s Door Lock Priority (-)
BROWN / WHITE Alarming / Horn Honk (-) 12V output (requires relay)
ORANGE Sensor Defeat (-) input
BLUE Hood / Trunk (-) input
BLACK/ WHITE Dome Light (-) output (requires relay)
YELLOW/WHITE Auxiliary Function-1 (-) output
YELLOW Ignition Key +12V input
BLACK Chassis Ground
VIOLET Door Trigger (+) input
GREEN Door Trigger (-) input
BROWN (12 gauge spade terminals) Starter Kill
BLACK (10A fuse) to BLUE/BLACK n/o, closed @ unlock
BLACK (10A fuse) to GREEN/ BLACK n/o, closed @ lock
GREEN/ BLACK to WHITE/ BLACK n/c, open @ unlock
BLUE/BLACK to VIOLET/BLACK n/c, open @ lock
currently, both the windows and locks are triggered using the GREEN/ BLACK wire. even using diodes to isolate the window modules from everything so they should have NO output to the alarm, they stikll cause nightmares with the locks, I even tried using a relay to increase output current for activation triggers with no luck.
they flat out will not cooperate with each other.
I need to find a way to essentially create a second trigger line from the alarm to roll up the windows on arm.
-------------
-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: omega
Date Posted: July 08, 2002 at 4:32 PM
Is there a reason you wouldn't connect the window modules to the starter kill output? Is it an open when armed starter kill output? In my experience everyone connects window modules to the starter kill so when the alarm is armed the windows go up. If the alarm has an open-when-armed starter kill then I guess you can't do this without wiring in relay(s) to change that output to become grounded when armed instead of open. In any case, though, wouldn't it be easier to do that than fidilling with the lock and unlock stuff, right? Or am I missing what you want to accomplish here?
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: July 09, 2002 at 10:25 AM
My thoughts exactly Omega ....... I usually use the starter disable to operate the window roll up on my installations as well if the unit does not have neough extensions on the module. Another way is to use the ground when armed ( if applicable ) wire to control the window modules. ------------- Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: July 09, 2002 at 11:23 AM
first time I've wired these, and they had no documentation at ALL.
when i was doing this for a living, nobody wanted to pay $200+ for the power window option on an alarm ten years ago.
things got a lot cheaper when the internet caught on.. heh
I'll give it a shot.
-------------
-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: July 09, 2002 at 7:34 PM
No luck there
starter kill circuit (loop on alarm BCM) is normally closed.. in fact trying it on a DMM it's ALWAYS closed.
alarm armed, disarmed, tripped.. always closed.
I connected the window module to the starter kill loop, and the moment the keys hit the accessory position the Jeep (manual trans) tried to jump into the utility room from a standing start.
Discovered that connecting power window module to starter kill causes the car to try starting itself the moment the keys are turned one click forward.
anyway on to any more ideas?
Starter Kill does in fact work, after testing it out (tried to start car with keys when alarm was tripped. no go)
However, when connecting the 500mA activation line of the window modules to this loop, it has rather bad results as noted above.
what am I doing wrong here?
-------------
-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: July 14, 2002 at 10:59 PM
Jeff, what exactly did ya have in mind by wiring these to the starter kill loop? directly tapping into it? using a relay?
the modules use a 500mA activation trigger
They also have an "accessory" line which I connected to ignition. I'm under the impression this wire is supposed to be connected to an accessory-position +12V when keys are in wire so as not to trigger window modules when car is on?
-------------
-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: July 15, 2002 at 8:03 AM
Don't hook up the PINK wire ( ACCESSORY wire ). I never do and they all work without a problem. The starter disable outputs a (-) signal once the system is armed and for as long as the system is armed too, but the window control modules cut input signal once there is a spike in the resistance of the motor wires. The signal coming off the starter disable is a full (-) ground and will support the 500mA required by the modules for an activation wire. BTW: Why would it be a big deal if your window modules are operational when the car is on or off ? The modules are just duplicating the press of the window buttons wether or not the vehicle is on or off. ------------- Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: July 16, 2002 at 4:35 PM
mainly it was causing problems in regards to the door locks. not an issue with starter kill.
now I just need to figure out how to wire them so they stop trying to start the car when the windows are connected LOL
-------------
-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: July 18, 2002 at 7:23 AM
Wow, something is out of wack there with the windows being connected to the starter ?!?! Time to re-wire and find the problem. ------------- Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: July 18, 2002 at 6:22 PM
nah found the problem. FINALLY got my hands on the installer manual for the alarm.
the starter kill is normally closed.
I used the "sensor defeat" trigger, which is normally open, closed when armed. this trigger is for wiring an optional fuel pump disable etc.. and it did the trick for the window modules.
Once I got the dang manual for programming the BCM, everything fell right into place LOL
-------------
-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
Posted By: omega
Date Posted: July 21, 2002 at 10:53 PM
Just a note, I noticed there was some talk about the PINK accessory wire on the window modules... If I'm not mistaken that PINK wire on the module(s) is not supposed to be connected to the accessory wire in the car but rather it is for another "accessory ITEM" like another window module or something else you would like to use on the ground when armed wire.' I used a DMM on one of these modules and it seems the PINK wire is paralleled to the ORANGE wire, except that it is diode isolated I think. Therefore you would connect a second module, starter kill, etc. to that wire and connect the ORANGE ground when armed output wire of an alarm to that wire. I see that you have already figured it out but I just thought I'd add that note about the PINK wire on the window module.
Posted By: GlassWolf
Date Posted: July 22, 2002 at 11:17 AM
could be.. I just ignored it and left it disconnected, since the modules only trigger when the alarm is armed anyway now.. hehe
I just wired the harnesses for both modules together (fronts and rears) and it does just fine
-------------
-GlassWolf
Pioneer Stage-4, Orion, DynAudio, Fi
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