circuit breaker box

I want to make a custom circuit breaker box. I found the breakers at parts express that I want to use I am trying to be able to tap power with out haveing to tap fuses all the time thats such a pain in the rear. I want a box like your home runs on I figured that I could run a large gauge power wire to the box but I want to have at least half of the ten or twenty breakers on ignition not constant how do I set that up?

Thanks

ok thanks for the advice but can you answer the orginal question of how do I wire the ign side of the breaker box I think that it would use a  relay comming off the fuse box as a switch But I am a relay virgin if you could exxplain this it would be great thnks

I understand what you are saying but the Idea that I am trying to represent is in fact just a fuse box for the use of accesorys but instead of using fuses (that blow and need replacing while your on the job and you need to go to the nearest store that sells them in the middle of the biggest noreastteren in years and in the mean time your lose 3 jobs to other plowers) you just flip the breakers Not using the breakers as the switch but as a fuseable link and switching where is needed else where in the vehcile...

I hope that somes up the point I was trying to make..

so if that is in fact ow you understood it why does fuse box cause these electrial spikes in current or are they hooked up differently? if so how?

Thanks

Overcranked23 wrote:

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Instead of using fuses (that blow and need replacing while your on the job and you need to go to the nearest store that sells them in the middle of the biggest noreastteren in years and in the mean time your lose 3 jobs to other plowers) you just flip the breakers.

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Overcranked23 wrote:

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Not using the breakers as the switch but as a fuseable link and switching where is needed else where in the vehcile...

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Overcranked23 wrote:

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why does fuse box cause these electrial spikes in current or are they hooked up differently?

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I have never really seen the purpose of circuit breakers in car audio except in high power systems. If the fuse blows (which it really shouldnt) then either you have a short or you are just drawing too much, both of which require more than just poping a new fuse in. If you dont have a short then use the next fuse size higher. Fuses are there to protect the wire nothing more, they are not to protect the amp they are to protect the wire in case of a short circuit.

Other than that you can buy circuit breakers made for car audio that may serve your purpose well.

OK I think that you Teken are not getting this

ITS A FUSE BOX instead of fuses I am using breakers

        Just like in a house breakers instead of fuses  (for the most part

What the heck is the difference I am not going to use the breaker as a switch just a place to get power from.... How is this different than a fuse box that you pull power from???

and if you could answer the question of how to set up some of the breakers as switch power that would really be help full and if I blow my car up I will tell you and everone else that I blew my car up you where right and I was wrong

And its not the end till I say so....... 

Overcranked23 wrote:

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OK I think that you Teken are not getting this

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Overcranked23 wrote:

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ITS A FUSE BOX instead of fuses I am using breakers

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Overcranked23 wrote:

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What the heck is the difference I am not going to use the breaker as a switch just a place to get power from.... How is this different than a fuse box that you pull power from???

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Overcranked23 wrote:

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and if you could answer the question of how to set up some of the breakers as switch power that would really be help full

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Overcranked23 wrote:

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and if I blow my car up I will tell you and everone else that I blew my car up you where right and I was wrong

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I dont think you can get breaker boxes like in a house for your vehicle... Maybe you can modify a small MLO box lol... I still dont understand why you want multiple breakers but to each his own. You could always buy the breakers and possible fabricate something..? What kind of breakers are you looking at? Link?

No link but parts express has the breakers they are not just one size the breakers come in 20 30 and 40 amp loads I had also plan on putting some fuses fin the box That I plan to fabricate seeing how I work in a metal shop the breakers will match the amperage so if the item being fused is in need of a 30 amp fuse it will have a 30 amp breaker instead... Somewhere down the line I think that I was labeled clueless!!!!! 

I understand your point Teken but I know how this works the fusible item will have the proper amperage breaker....

But I do not know is how if I am taking the power off the battery directly is how to make some of the breakers live only after the key is turned on to ignition... Please help on this if you can ? 

so a relay can only handle 30 to 40 amps what ever its rated for! so if I wanted somthing to switch it would have to b 30/40 amps or find a relay with bigger amperage?

How would you trigger the relay off of an ign fuse? Is there another way to do this?

Would running the relays lower the impdeance of what ever item is getting power off of the breaker

Thanks for your help

Maybe.. just MAYBE if you posted exactly what your intent is.... teken and the rest of the gang can show you a way to do it.

As i understand it from reading the 1st post a dozen times and several quotes and replies.. you are going to hook up several high current items to be on ONLY when the ignition is in the ON position. You want to instead of putting a simple blade fuse in-line to protect your circuts, hook up a circut breaker, so if something goes wrong, or too much current is being drawn, it will pop the breaker, and you can simply throw the breaker the other direction and make it live again.

One thing you are failing to realize, is, if you blow a fuse/ trip a breaker, the solution is NOT to put a new fuse in, or toss the breaker back on and go about your buisness. Something is either drawing too much current than the rated fuse or something is shorted out.

Just like in a house, if a breaker trips, its not because its an old peice of sh*t, its because something came on (compressor/Oven/Washing machine) that was drawing TOO much current than what the breaker/fuse/wiring was designed to handle, or, there is a short somewhere and by simply flipping the switch, you did NOTHING but turn the power back on long enough for it to do it again.

Lets say you wanna hook up 50 100w lights(example) all over your truck. Well, if you tie all these 50 lights into the same power wire, protected by a single 30 amp fuse. running off of the same switch... your gonna pop the fuse, espicially as ground wires wear out, bulbs wear in, ext.

The soloution is: Wire up several 30/40 amp relays, to be triggered off of the same switch (your IGN wire in this case). Run several power wires to the battery, all seperately fused. So now, when you turn the ignition ON, the several relays you wired up are drawing very little juice, they throw the relay, and POW.... all of your lights just came on. There is a mathmatical conversion that will help you figure out how many relays to use depending on how much current is needed.

That was all just a huge example... so dont go off on me for dodging your question, yadda yadda yadda....

If you have many things, all seperately fused, wired directly off of your ignition wire, your still going to blow fuses/trip breakers/burn wire because the ignition wire cannot supply all the devices with enough power, so it blows the fuse(S) or trips the breaker(S) or burns the wire(S).

Like i said in the beginning, explain exactly what you are trying to do instead of giving a vauge idea and being resistant on peoples opinions.

Tell us: Guys, im trying to hook up my 19' western plow w/100watt strobe lights so it has power when the ignition is on. Im also trying to get my fog lights/ CB w/10000watt amp + Laptop's AC inverter + cell phone charger to come on the same.

These guys are fantastically smart! If you give more details, the more likely they can help

Sorry if i got too in depth there. Your soloution is not breakers, Your solution is relays.... the relay does exactly what its named for.. it relays power... it takes a small ammount of power... relays it along so its bigger brother can carry the load. so... when you apply power(ignition) to one side, and ground to another side, it will flip a switch and allow the other 2 pins of the relay to make contact... here you have your high current wire, ran from the battery, and on the other side of this "switch" you have high current output. When the ignition power is shut off, the switch releases, and the current flow from big brother stops, and the circut is dead.

85 to IGNwire 86 to ground (85+ 86-) ~  87 to battery(fused) ~ 30 to whatever your tryin to power up. Soooo.. with the key OFF ... 87 and 30 make no contact...  when you turn the key ON.... a small ammount of current is sent through the relay, flipping the switch ... taking the +12V from the battery and allowing it to travel across the relay to pin 30, completing your circut and powering up your devices.

Hope this helps, let us know, sorry for the replies like this.. but i confused myself with my 1st post = )

mikeshonda750 wrote:

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your still going to blow fuses/trip breakers / *burn wire* because the ignition wire cannot supply all the devices with enough power,

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Now we are getting somewhere

Explaination is a two way street!

I did not relazwe that a breaker will not "break as quick as a blade style fuse.So why do you use breakers in automotive apps then? then how if breakers are not the answer here do you suggest a way to create a power acess point in vechile that can taped at any time for power?

Thanks for getting this back on track

Nick

Overcranked23 wrote:

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I did not relazwe that a breaker will not "break as quick as a blade style fuse.

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Overcranked23 wrote:

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So why do you use breakers in automotive apps then?

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Overcranked23 wrote:

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then how if breakers are not the answer here do you suggest a way to create a power acess point in vechile that can taped at any time for power?

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I guess you could simply create a remote positive terminal such as those found on newer vehicles for jumpstarting/charging reasons. If your going to use this power source so it is on with ignition, simply wire up the relay(s) like i mentioned above and instead of running the relay directly to your devices, run it to a distribution type box with several terminals in it. This would allow you to connect whatever devices you need to and remove them just as easily.

Im still wondering what your going to hook up into this box? I mean, I cant think of many applications in a vehicle where you would need to quickly connect numerous items, and remove them just as quickly... but maybe thats none of my buisness. I guess if it was me, and i wanted to hook up alot of things to only have power when the key is on, i would wire up a relay for each device to use the ignition wire as a trigger but place toggle switches inbetween so if i need to turn one off, I flip a switch and kill 1 relay while the rest remain active... this would... in effect give you a way to "break" the connection to whatever you choose, without having to disconnect wiring ect.

You could also do the same with the distribution block.... use the ignition wire with a toggle switch in place as your trigger.. and wire up as many switches/relays as you need... that way you have a place (the block) to tie in whatever you might dream of... and you have a place inside the vehicle where you can power them up.... i dunno.. good luck

we'll I have cooler that I keep numerous sodas in that I like to randomely through out the window I have a portable discman that I use as my cd player I like to through that out the window when I am driving to work also. Finally I have aftermarket heated seats they catch on fire some times I have to dicconect fast......OK that was all a little joke

For real though I dont need this box of any particular reason I have times where I run into tapping fuse power just suxs or dosent look neat but I Had to get ign power and did not another way and I am doing a truck (soon to be mine I hope ) that I am going all out on neon a lot of neon full stereo and video dvd for the kids (YEAH right) and all the little toys (Like head lights that turn off when the vechile turns off Please see other post that I made I have not gotten any replys on TITLED: light go out I bet you guys could help) I thought I could put somthing together like a breaker box it seemed like a good idea that I might be able to sell at the guys at work.

any way I have seen fused dis blocks but I have never seen them less than 10 awg where do I find one for smaller wire??

Thanks for the help guys you are my new HERO'S 

mikeshonda750 wrote:

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when you apply power(ignition) to one side, and ground to another side, it will flip a switch and allow the other 2 pins of the relay to make contact...

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Where can I get the orginal ign wire to power the relay besides the fuse boxor is taht it?

Some will disagree with me on this... but dont tie anything into the fuse box.

If you take, lets say, a set of fog lights and hook them up to turn on with the headlights and you simply tie your wiring into the fuse at the fuse box, that cuircut that was created to carry 20amps, using a 20amp fuse is now supplying 30amps, on 20amp wiring and a 20 amp fuse.... and even if you toss a 50amp fuse in there, the wiring was still designed to handle 20amps. My problem with this (other than it being a saftey hazard) doesent have anything to do with that tho.... it has to do with after you sell your vehicle. You simply unbolt the fog lights tape up the wires and hide them away and 2 months down the road, i get the vehicle in with a headlight problem. It is a horrible pain in the ass trying to figure out where the problem is, and after lots of diag time, ya finally find some corroded taped up mess stuck to the top of the fuse box. With that being said:

Figure out what color your primary ignition wire is. Ask here if needed, we can find out... it will be along the steering colum most likely...Tie in here....  you dont need to use 4 gauge wire here but make it heavy enough that it will handle whatever might be tossed at it. If i was you, i would fuse this wire right there close to the harness. Run this wire directly to the relay, or to a toggle switch. It should be connected to terminal 85 of the relay. Connect 87 to the battery (fused at the battery), connect 30 to whatever you want to power up (fog lights, CB, whatever) and 86 to ground.

I will add one comment then stop rambling on... may be wise to tell us what type of vehicle your wishing to add this "Key on ~ Lights on" feature to.. it may require the use of some diodes to stop it from frying a computer or another switch ext... just a little FYI

Good luck

93 Subaru Imperiza AWD

I posted it under Relays in another post oso this oone wouldnt ramble on.

Thnks

Your ignition wire is a solid red wire running from the ignition switch, down the steering colum. This wire will test +12V only when the key is in the ON position AND during crank. I would reccommend using an accessory wire. This wire will have +12V in ACC/RUN position but you will loose juice when the key is off, or your starting the engine. This is a RED / Yellow wire in the same location. I prefer this as your + source because it wont take away any voltage from the starter/computer while your cranking the engine, but will give your equipment power when the key is in the "ACC" position which is nice if your just sitting there with the engine off... but need your newly wired stuff to be powered.

Remember

85- Ignition/Acc wire (side terminal left)

87- +12V Battery fused(top terminal)

86- solid ground (side terminal right)

30- to your distribution block(bottom terminal)

let us know how it goes

u  know i read through the entire 3 pages, and i can't believe not one person knows what he's talking about, i understood exactly what he meant from the first post, maybe i can explain it better for him.

ok long story short, he hates hooking up under the dash for a ton of crap, may it be lights, more cigarette lighters, connecting his radar dector, his cb,

he thinks this looks like crap and is a crappy way of doing it, i also agree

what he wants to do is run a heave guage wire such as 4-2 guage, so that he has like 60 -70-80 amps to work with. he wants to run this to a central area, maybe in a rear cargo hatch who know's

he wants this "box" to come on with the ignition, but we all know the standard rating of a automotive relay is 30-40 amps, he needs an alternative,an example would be on a AC setup "a light switch in a factory capable of 15 amps, turns on a relay box which then in turn, turns on about 200 amps of flurecent lights and a variety of other crap"

now i haven't delt with this in DC, i don't know if they make "relay boxes" such as this, u would commonly find these AC relay boxes at a Lowes or something for use with a thermostat that would control 3-4 zones for heating.

and finally he needs to know how to connect the "circuit breaker's" he's found at that online store to the main 4 guage wiring running to battery, i would be suprised that the same store would not have a box for more then one, this where some ingenuity would be needed

Blll or Little bill as the case may be it appers that you have hit the nail on the head so to speak!!!!

My fellow frieneds (I can call them that now after the mean things that we said about each other behind our backs) did not pick it up as fast as you did. They also didnt have three pages to read though. it seems like a good idea I still might try it out it was more like a brainstorm gone wrong ya know. wow aent they gonna close this topic. damn newbie topic starters.......LOL                

Heh like i said, if he would have came out and said "I want to create a remote + location for hooking up anything i choose to be turned on with the ignition" Things woulda went alot better and not been 3 pages long, instead he was asking about a breaker box for his vehicle, which was senseless and wouldnt have done him any good. He also was talking about making it simple when a fuse blows... to simply toss a switch back over and away ya go.... the post is 3pages long not because nobody had a clue in the world what he wanted, it is 3pages long because people wanted him to do the job correctly, and wouldnt give advice on doing a sh*tty job... or wiring up something that they (we) would not wire up for ourselves..... ever... thx and good luck

I take back all the nice things that I said about you mike now I have to but you in my black book! LOL

what happens when you wire the relays in parrel When you do that with speakers the resistance goes down so what happens with relays?

And do you wire them 85+'s to 85+'s    and 86-to 86-? 

Well.. to wire it in parallel... all you do is increase the ammount of relays, and the ammount of hot wires running from the battery, and use each relay to trigger the next. So take 4 relays(example) ING+ to Pin 85. 86 to next relays 85, 86 to next relays 85, 86 to next relays 85, 86 to ground. Now, when the 1st relay sees 12V+, it will trigger all the relays. Or you could do some digging and find a higher amperage relay and eleminate the need for many relays.

I suppose you could run a 4gauge wire and splice into it with 12gauge wire from the battey for your relays(pin 87) but a more reliable way would be to use (if using 4 relays) 4 - 10gauge wires all fused seperately comming off of the battery running to your "relay box". then, if you wanted just a single terminal that could supply 120amps of power, tie all your pin30's together and make a giant hot wire..... but i would feel alot safer if you kept all the relays seperate and used them to power seperate pins.

That answer your question man?

I am not sure But I think that the Parallel config example above is actually a Series config.

This is the defintions according to MECP Study guide

A series circuit is established when a circuit  components are connected is a string end to end so that only one common terminal is shared between two componets and they share the same current

a paraell connection iiiexists when circuit elements are connected so that two ternumals are shated and voltage is common across the shared elements...

Would that not mean that you example is wired in a series not in parallel?