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Relay Wiring, Lights

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Relays
Forum Discription: Relay Diagrams, SPDT Relays, SPST Relays, DPDT Relays, Latching Relays, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=52891
Printed Date: March 28, 2024 at 6:06 PM


Topic: Relay Wiring, Lights

Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Subject: Relay Wiring, Lights
Date Posted: March 30, 2005 at 10:40 PM

Greetings!

I think I've seen this dual relay set-up diagramed out here before.  Basically, I want to have a pari of Hella FF50's as my driving lights on whenever my Main HID's are on (4 lights total) AND have a 2nd pair of Hella's as my high beams. I want the "Hella Driving Pair" to go off when the "Hella High-Beam Pair" are used. I've seen a couple of diagrams here before. Any EASY ideas? Here's the set-up again:

NOW, my HID's are triggered by my parking lights through an upgraded harness and getting power directly from my battery. The Hella FF50's that WILL BE my "driving lights" will (I'm assuming) ALSO be triggered by parking light wire through another relay so that they are on WITH my HID's WHENEVER my parking lights are on. I realize that I can put a switch between the connections and the parking light wire IF I ever want parking lights only - but I'm fine with having the 4 lights on WITH my parking lights. All or nothing = OK.

THEN, the 2nd set of HELLA FF50's WOULD be my "High Beams" and be triggered by my OEM Harness High Beam lead along with the Hella supplied relay - again I'm assuming.

Can anyone draw out a detailed SPECIFIC relay wiring diagram to help me achieve this?

THANKS ... in advance!
Rick




Replies:

Posted By: Hoptup32
Date Posted: March 31, 2005 at 7:21 PM

I think I'm understanding what you want, the diagram below has the HID's and the driving light FF50's on at the same time, with the parking light lead. Then when the hi beams are activated thru the OEM harness, the Hi Beam FF50's will come on and the driving light FF50's will go out, but the HID lights will still be on.

Is that how you want it to be? If not, we can change this schematic.

posted_image





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: March 31, 2005 at 7:43 PM

Wow, that's absolutely PERFECT:  HID's AND Driving FF50's on with parking light trigger and High Beam FF50's by OEM harness High Beam Trigger while cutting the Driving FF50's.  Nice job on the diagram!

Now, are they SPST, DPDT ... The last relay I used did NOT have the center 87A lug.

Thanks!

Rick





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: March 31, 2005 at 8:12 PM

What specific relays should I get?  The look like SPDT - and 30amp 12Volt ???

Do all 3 need to be grounded separately, or can the 85's be looped together with 4" or 5" wire and THEN grounded?  NOW, I have an upgraded wiring harness that has relays, fuses AND goes directly to the battery.  Am I correct in assuming that YOUR diagramed Main HID relay 87 can go DIRECTLY to the trigger of the existing upgraded harness?  I shouldn't remove what I've got, right ... EXTRA protection that's working fine now?

Thanks ... AGAIN!





Posted By: Hoptup32
Date Posted: March 31, 2005 at 8:20 PM

The relays shown are common SPDT Bosch style relays.  You need 30 amp relays. You should be able to purchase them locally at any good auto parts store.  I mail order mine from here:

https://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Product_ID=9682&CAtid=47

There about $5-$6 dollars each at an auto parts store.





Posted By: Hoptup32
Date Posted: March 31, 2005 at 8:37 PM

Yes, you can connect the 85 terminals together and ground them at one location.

All 87 terminals are 12v outputs to the light pairs. The 86 terminals are the relay activation triggers.

I'm not sure if I'm following your reference to the HID trigger from the upgraded harness.  Are your HID lights connected to a relay wired to the upgraded harness now?  We may have to modify the schematic to work around this issue.





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: March 31, 2005 at 8:47 PM

OK,

I have the Bosch H4 upgraded harness that was originally designed to pull power directly from the battery and allows you to plug one OEM H4 connector into the input of the harness and then both H4 receptacles are to go to the bulbs.  Since I upgraded to HID, I have disconnected the OEM harness completely to isolate the Highs and Lows.  I did not want the issue of having the Low HID's blink or go OUT when using the Flash-To-Pass or High Beams.  Now that the OEM harness is isolated ... that problem is solved.  The "upgraded" harness that I'm currently using is going directly to the battery and, I believe has 3 relays and is fused as well and has heavier gauge wiring - as compared to stock.  I've got each + balast wire going to the H4 receptacle on each side.  I imagine that should ALL STAY and the main hid trigger wire to both balasts?  That's the only tricky issue ...

Thoughts?

Thanks -





Posted By: Hoptup32
Date Posted: March 31, 2005 at 9:14 PM

I think I understand the HID wiring setup.  Leave the HID wiring as it is, just tap into the HID trigger wire to activate the driving light relay.  Still activate the Hi Beam FF50 relay with the OEM Hi Beam lead and everything should still work like you want it to.

posted_image





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: March 31, 2005 at 9:34 PM

Nice ... 1 less relay also!  Thanks for the mail order link.  I ordered 4 relays and a pair of dual receptacles.  Looks like I will have a spare set for the future!

The driving lights that I just installed HAVE a relay installed.  That stays, correct?  I've got THAT trigger wire to the oem High trigger - for now.  That trigger will move to the parking light 12volt lead - but then that relay is isolated, right?

 Do I need to yank it and follow the "new" dual relay set-up?  I hate to confuse the issue ... we're getting sooooooooo close - and I'm actually starting to actually follow it!

???  Thanks!





Posted By: Hoptup32
Date Posted: April 01, 2005 at 11:49 PM

If I'm understanding your setup correctly, your HID lights are currently running off of the upgraded harness and need no modification.  You also already have your driving lights working off of a seperate relay, which will be reconfigured  to be triggered by the parking light lead.

You could still use the current driving light relay, still being triggered by the parking light lead, if you can rewire the 12v battery feed to terminal 30 for this relay. To make the driving lights go off when the HI Beam FF50's are turned on, you need the input power for the driving light relay to be coming from the Hi Beam relay, terminal 87a. The Hi Beam relay(on the left of the diagram) terminal 86, is  triggered by the Hi Beam lead, which activates the relay and switches the 12v battery feed from terminal 87a, to terminal 87, which switches the power from the driving light relay to the Hi Beam lights, until the Hi Beam lead is turned off.  So it sounds like you may only need one additional relay.

Be careful using the dual relay receptales, they are wired for specific applications, such as door locks or power windows. You may need to modify the wiring to use them of other applications. 





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: April 03, 2005 at 12:39 AM

Hmmm.

I did not realize that the dual relay receptacles were not straight through cable connections.  I will check them closely when they arrive.  Thanks for the heads-up!

EACH set of FF50's have a relay.  If that's the case ... will I need ANY additional relays?  The 2nd set is not installed yet as I want to get the full relay wiring picture first.  I can easily move the trigger on the driving lights relay over to the parking light 12V lead.  Then, both my HID's and Driving lights will work with the parking lights.

I think the BOTH have 85, 86, 87 and 30 ONLY without the 87A.  Do I need to replace one as in the last drawing?  I hate to say I think I'm still a little confused - but I think I'm still a little confused. 

Thanks again ... and I'm confident in YOUR abilities! / Rick





Posted By: Hoptup32
Date Posted: April 03, 2005 at 7:07 PM

You CAN use the  four terminal relay for the FF50 driving lights and the HID lights you have now.

However, you MUST use the 5 terminal bosch style relay for the Hi Beam relay.  You need this type of relay with terminal 87a so that the Low Beams go off when the Hi Beams are switched on.

Whats happening in the two relay diagram is, the +12v battery power is connected to terminal 30 on the Hi Beam relay on the left in the diagram.  This +12v is immediately going out thru terminal 87a over to terminal 30 on the Low Beam relay, which powers the Low Beam lights when the Low Beam relay terminal 86 sees 12v from what will be the parking light lead.  But when you hit the dimmer switch to activate the Hi Beam lights, the Hi Beam relay sees 12v from the Hi Beam lead and switches the +12v from terminal 87a to 87 on the Hi Beam relay, subsequently cutting the power to Low Beam relay terminal 30, so the low beam lights go out!  Then, when you switch the Hi Beams off, the +12v on Hi Beam relay terminal 87 goes back to terminal 87a and the Low Beam lights come back on, until the power thru the parking light lead is turned off.

A relay in its basic form is just a switch.

With a four terminal relay, when the relay is activated, the power flows in thru terminal 30 and out thru terminal 87, thats as simple as it gets. Four terminal relays are dumb as a ..........hammer! 

With a five terminal bosch style relay, power flows from terminal 30 thru to terminal 87a until the relay is activated, then the power flows out terminal 87.  This type of relay gives you more switching options, especially when using multiple relays to perform a certain task.

You get four, five or more relays wired together and the "relay logic" sometimes gets harder to understand than "Chinese Arithmetic."

What gauge wire are you using to power the lights?  The 12v battery feed (input) wire from the battery source to terminal 30 should probably be 12 gauge since the lights most likely will be drawing a lot of current, likewise, the output wire from terminal 87 to the lights should also be 12 gauge.  For terminals 85 and 86 you can use a smaller size wire, like 16 or 18 gauge, but use the same size for both terminals. 

Post back if you are still confused or have any additional questions.

Don





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: April 04, 2005 at 2:50 PM

Don

Thanks for the additional detail.  I think I get it.  Now I need to check and see which type relay I just ordered four of ...

I will probably install/wire them later this week and will post a follow-up then.  Thanks for your help! 

Rick





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: April 04, 2005 at 8:27 PM

Don,

Here's the link to the sockets that I ordered.  I didn't see that they said, "designed for all types of door locks."

https://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?DID=7&PartNumber=330-078

Are they wired straighed through?  I guess, since I only need one of the 5 terminal relays ... I could use the lugs and tape them well.

Thanks,

Rick





Posted By: Hoptup32
Date Posted: April 05, 2005 at 5:04 PM

Don;t feel so bad about ordering the dual relay sockets without seeing the fine print.  I did the same thing and ordered two of them for a wiring job I was doing for a friend.  Then I found out I had to modify the wiring to use them for what I needed.  They are prewired with a few of the common terminals wired together, like terminals 85 and 30 I think. I don't remember exactly. 

You can cut the wires that are jumpered together to make each side of the receptacle independent or standalone for each relay.  The receptacle terminal plugs are anchored into the receptacle, they make a small bladed screwdriver type tool that you can insert into each terminal plug to depress the terminal anchor lug so you can pull the terminal plug and wire out thru the bottom of the receptacle, so you can change the wiring if need be. You may be able to imprevise with a small screwdriver or a large paper clip to depress the anchor lug with.

I normally don't use the plug receptacles, I just wire the relay up using 1/4" female blade connectors that are plastic coated on the outside so they won't short out to anything nearby. Although, they do come in handy if you have to remove the relay and put it back in, so you don't have to remember where each wire goes.

Good luck with the install, I don't think you will have any problems.

Don 





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: April 05, 2005 at 8:18 PM

Thanks!

I do have ONE problem though ... I ran into a car at a stoplight this afternoon and waited 3 hours for the tow truck.  NOT happy.  Thankfully, we're both OK.  My front bumper is trashed, both Hella's installed in the bumper need to get swapped, HID lights work - but one is poined to the side and the bucket is off a little.  I can't believe how angry I am.  Oh well, I guess that's why they call it an accident and not an on purpose.

Way PISSED off ... RICK!  (Boo Hoo Hoo)





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: April 25, 2005 at 10:58 PM

Don, I'm Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack and my Jeep is out of the shop and fixed!  $3,000 worth of cosmetic damage and back in business.  Ok.  Here's what I did to "prepare" for the addition of the 2nd relay for my High Beam FF50's:  I'm using the Hella relay triggered from the parking lights (just like my HID's) and now BOTH the Driving Set of FF50's and my HID's will come on with the parking lights.  Step one - done.

The #'s (85,86,30 & 87 don't seem to line up when I look at your diagram for the Hella relay and when I check the actual relay.  On the Hella relay, I've got:  a Red, Blue, Green and Black wire coming off of it.  The Red is to the Battery, the Black is grounded, the Blue is going to the Driving FF50's and the Green is going to the Parking Light Trigger. 

So, please correct me if I'm wrong:  I'm pulling the Red from the Hella Relay currently to the Battery and moving it to the Parking Light Trigger.  I'm also pulling the Green from the Hella Relay currently to the Parking Light Trigger and moving it to the Bosch High Beam Relay 87A.  Then, completing the Bosch High Beam Relay:  85 to ground, 87 to the FF50 High Beam Positives, 86 to the OEM Hi Beam Trigger (from unused old H4 plug) and 30 to the Battery. And of course, grounding the High Beam FF50's.

Does that look right to you?  I just want to be sure since I've jumped the gun before and made silly mistakes.  I think I've got.

Thanks again for your assistance!  Rick





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: April 26, 2005 at 10:42 AM

Anyone ... Anyone ...

I would like to attempt this later today, Tuesday, April 26 - but only if one of you kind & smart & technical gurus can confirm that this is OK.

THANKS ... IN ADVANCE,  Rick





Posted By: Hoptup32
Date Posted: April 26, 2005 at 4:42 PM

You've almost got it ! 

The red wire on the Hella relay is the only wire you remove from this relay.  Move the red wire, going to the battery on the hella relay, to terminal 30 on the Hi Beam relay.  Then you connect a wire from terminal 87a of the Hi Beam relay ,back to the hella relay where the red wire was attached.   Connect the remaining wires to the Hi Beam relay as you indicated, Hi Beam trigger to 86, ground to 85, FF50's to 87.

The red wire going to the battery, the blue wire going to the FF50's, the wire from terminal 87a of the Hi Beam relay to where the red wire was on the Hella relay and the wire from terminal 87 of the Hi Beam relay to the Hi Beam FF50's should be at least a 12g wire, to handle the large current draw. Likewise, the ground at the lights should be the same 12g wire size.  The relay trigger wires and ground wires, terminals 85 and 86 can be smaller gauge wires, as they just carry a small current to activate the relays.

Wire it up and test it.  Post back with your results.

Don 





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: April 26, 2005 at 5:43 PM

So, 87A on the Bosch Hi-Beam relay is going directly to the battery - where the Hella red wire was, right.

The rest looks easy enough.  I think I will try it tomorrow since it's a little later than I thought ... dinner, kids, homework, WIFE !

Why are you in the garage ... AGAIN ???

Thanks for the response and please confirm the first sentence.  I think I read it right.

Rick





Posted By: Hoptup32
Date Posted: April 26, 2005 at 7:39 PM

To confirm the first sentence, the answer is yes.....and no!

Yes, 87a on the Bosch Hi Beam relay is going to where the Hella red wire was.

However, your only direct connection to the battery source is the original red wire, which should now be moved to terminal 30 on the Bosch Hi Beam relay. The battery power will be coming to terminal 30 (via the red wire) on the Bosch relay and battery power will then be connected thru terminal 87a over to the Hella relay, where the red wire used to be connected. Thus, both relays are sharing the one direct battery connection(red wire). 

I hope thats not confusing?

Don





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: April 26, 2005 at 7:56 PM

Don,

I think I've got it.  It sound sooooo easy, then, I read it over and I get all loopy again.  I guess the "confusing" part it when you say the red wire ... is it connected to the Hella relay ... or the battery. 

Is this correct:  I'm connecting terminal 30 on the Bosch relay to the 12V+ battery for BOTH relays to share.  Then, the Red wire from the Hella relay (WAS TO BATTERY) is going to 87a on the Bosch relay.  I'm then grounding terminal 85 and connecting terminal 86 to the HID trigger, which is actually my parking light wire and terminal 87 is the High Beam lights +.

Yes?  Please say yes.  I feel like we're getting closer by the minute.





Posted By: Hoptup32
Date Posted: April 26, 2005 at 8:31 PM

I thought maybe I was confusing you by how I was trying to describe the wiring.  Here's another diagram which will hopefully make it "clear as mud!"  Post back if you still have any questions or are if things are still unclear.

posted_image





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: April 26, 2005 at 8:37 PM

PERFECT!  You draw some fine lookin relays ... and the terminal #'s are also in the right spots!  I will hopefully wire it tomorrow.  I mounted the Bosch relay tonight but that's as far as I got.

Thanks again for your assistance and I WILL post back when I'm done.  After all this ... it "looks" like it will work!

Rick

posted_image





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: April 27, 2005 at 6:02 PM

Don, you ARE the man!  It works PERFECTLY!  I ran all wires, soldered them, taped them ... and ... Driving Lights go OFF when High Beams are ON!

Now, easier question.  Right now, I've got 3 or 4 wires going to my battery.  I know, it ain't pretty.  Is it OK for me to tap off of one for my back-up light relay, OR ... do I need to go directly to the battery again?  It will only be activated when I shift into reverse - I'm not even sure that matters for what I'm asking.  I did ground my high beams to an existing ground wire.  I'm under the impression that's ok.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks! Rick





Posted By: Hoptup32
Date Posted: April 27, 2005 at 8:08 PM

Congratulations on a job well done!  I'm glad you got everything to work properly.

When you stated that you grounded your hi beams to an existing ground wire, did you mean you connected the hi beam lights to an existing grounding bolt with another ground wire, or did you mean you tapped into an existing ground wire?  Tapping into an existing ground wire would be fine, if the existing ground wire is of the same gauge or larger wire size. If the ground wire is smaller than the power wire coming to the lights, the smaller ground wire may heat up if the FF50's pull a lot of current, or the lights may not be as "bright" as they could be if the proper size wires were used.

Yes, it should be OK to tap into one of the battery wires for the back-up lights. I didn't show it in my diagram, but any power feed directly from the battery should always have a fuse installed as a safety precaution.  

I'm not real current on newer vehicle wiring, but I didn't think back-up lights were normally activated with a relay, unless its used as some type of switching component?  Back-up lights don't pull much current, they could be wired straight off of just about any fused ignition controlled power connection.  How are you activating the back-up light relay?

Don





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: April 27, 2005 at 9:01 PM

I added a 55 watt (similar to a driving beam, I think) to my rear bumper.  Since it's significantly more draw than stock and I want to connect it to the back up 12v wire ... I figured a relay is in order.  I can run 12v positive from the battery back to the relay in the back bumper, ground 85, 86 to the back-up trigger and 87 to the light itself.  Sound good?

Thanks, Rick

On my high/low set-up ... the Hella relay has a built in blade fuse.  The bosch relay is going directly to the battery without a fuse.  Do you suggest a 15amp or 20 amp or something else?  I'm not sure what they're supposed to draw - I could check that.





Posted By: Hoptup32
Date Posted: April 28, 2005 at 11:28 AM

Now that I understand your plans on the backup lights, I agree, the relay hookup is the best plan. Your wiring plan for the relay is correct.

I would put at least a 20 amp fuse inline between the battery and the Hi Beam relay.  Or whatever amp fuse the Hella relay has, since they are similar lights.

Don 





Posted By: 2000 JEEP CHERO
Date Posted: April 28, 2005 at 11:34 AM

I think Hella has a 15 amp fuse, but I will check it out.   Do you always monitor this board?  Can I email you in the future with a question or two?

Thanks again for all of your wisdom.  I really appreciate it!  Rick






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