cdts, focal, id?
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=85536
Printed Date: May 07, 2024 at 5:50 AM
Topic: cdts, focal, id?
Posted By: snhtown
Subject: cdts, focal, id?
Date Posted: November 12, 2006 at 4:17 PM
hey evertone i need your ears and opions, have anyone used any of these? i want to power these with 150 watts, will these handle that amount of power and still sound good? i am going to use a ppi art a300 for them....thnx guys and when it says rms 150 watts is that true or just an inflated number that was made up? https://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1166 https://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1117 https://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3945
Replies:
Posted By: mike12volt
Date Posted: November 12, 2006 at 6:33 PM
Most high-end product manufacturers mean rms as rms, in other words: continuous power. In some cases like Focal's, it said: Nominal or minimal. In your case I would get as close as possible to rms to match the speakers to amp.
Posted By: boulderguy
Date Posted: November 12, 2006 at 9:24 PM
Any of those can handle 150 RMS. Hell, I'd be fine sending 'em 200 RMS.
Any reason why one of those is the slim fit?
[The speaker, not your condom...  ]
Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: November 12, 2006 at 9:37 PM
boulderguy wrote:
Any of those can handle 150 RMS. Hell, I'd be fine sending 'em 200 RMS.
I can assure you those CDT's will NOT take 150wrms.. I've fried out lotsa CDT mid-basses.. much more than 50wrms or so and they burn up like a cigarette. I mean they do sound *really* nice... really warm sound to them. I'd take the ID's in that group. They look *really* nice to me. ------------- "I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
Posted By: snhtown
Date Posted: November 13, 2006 at 11:21 PM
thnx mike...sometimes i get confused because of certain brands making numbers up and i dont have the time or money to get the wrong product based on a false number....thnx boulderguy, nice ball buster and sedate thank you for bringing up your experiances...is there any particular reason the cdt's freid? or they just dont handle lots of power in general? or that particular model line? i took away the focals because they dont handle lots of power...or do they and focal underrated them big time? what am i looking to do? i am looking for speakers that will sound clean, while being driven very loud....i guess im picturing an effect like when i drive by i can feel the bass in my gut and hear the bass, but the mids and highs are overwhelmingly there...its hard to describe it...i want alot of bass (i have 2 L7's being powered by a eclispe da7232) but i also want my mids and highs to stand out more then the bass will... does anyone else know of any other speakers i should be looking at somewhere in the $375-425 150 watt rms range??? alpine type x? obtw for everyone whos going to complain about me being wrong for wanting to have a lot of bass, bothering people and being inconsiderate...im the kind of guy who has it, but never uses it....
Posted By: boulderguy
Date Posted: November 14, 2006 at 1:08 AM
I'm sending over 100w to Focals now (trojan-magnums 'course, not the slimmies  ) and they're doing fine.
Personally I don't have any problem with overpowering a speaker beyond it's RMS ratings within reason, it's all about clean power. The Focals tend to be power hungry anyway, I know ppl using 200w+ with the KP's & Utopias. 150w isn't traumatic to a quality speaker when used properly.
Check the DLS speakers (massive 3" VC's on neo magnets) & Image Dynamics too.
Posted By: dwarren
Date Posted: November 14, 2006 at 2:12 AM
The id's are nice, however the magnets are deep, so if you are limited in depth be careful, also the tweeter is large as well.
I'd listen to as many speakers as possible, but one thing to consider here is the fact that you are keeping up with bass, and metal dome tweeters may fit the bill a bit better, they tend to be brighter, hence them sounding louder.
-------------
Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: November 14, 2006 at 3:20 AM
snhtown wrote:
sedate thank you for bringing up your experiances...is there any particular reason the cdt's freid? or they just dont handle lots of power in general? or that particular model line?
Uhh. Actually I was running precisely 150wrms directly to EF-series midbasses from the bridged-channels of a JL Audio e6450. They died in about 2 weeks. In fact, I burned them up so badly that the phase plugs were burned into the speaker and the voice coil had the burned remenants of the phase plug burned onto it. I was kinda proud of my amp. If you actually look at the PDF's for all the CDT speakers, you'll find that many of them are the exact same magnet/motor structure attached to different cones. Such is the case comparing the EF and HD series. They are the exact same speaker, save the cone structure. So I imagine you'd find the same power handling characteristics. I'm not really sure I'd call them 'weak' speakers or anything... putting 150 JL watts to a little midbass like that was kinda asking for it. For aggressive componet sets, I have had the best luck with sets from JL Audio.. they aren't rated quite to 150 RMS but I've beaten VR's to death and they just ask for more. I've heard XR's take sick amounts of power as well.. ------------- "I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
Posted By: snhtown
Date Posted: November 14, 2006 at 9:53 PM
boulder, i always wanted to try the Utopias, but they always been out of my price range, hopefully soon, maybe my next system :) and i looked at the dls in the pass, im considering those also....my problem is im deaf in one ear and mostly in the other...so if i went to some shops to hear them i probaly wont notice the diffrences that someone else would...so sadly i have to go by what people say of products (maybe thats a reason why im looking for good quality) i think i may end up going for the id's...i still have a couple more days to decide has anyone out there used dls speakers? dwarren, i heard metel tweets b4 and they seemed to be a little harsh for my ears....99% of the time im not going to be playing my music loud, hell i hardly even listen to music while driving anymore(talk radio) i just want to have the ablitly thats all....if i kept the treble down will this help kept the tweets from sounding so hard to my ears? i suck because i want it to be bright but i dont....u know? sedate, one of my questions about the cdt's are what is the diffrence with all of them....i notice that one kind of speaker will have 3 differnt kinds of tweets, 3 differnt sets....so if i went with the cdt hd-62 and feed them 150 watts i should expect them not to last long? sad, because i always wanted to try these out.....as far as jl is concerned i think im going to avoid them, for some reason i never really liked jl, i guess it has to do with my"anti-mass-marketing-everyone has them type speakers mentality" that, and they were always priced to high... https://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1117
Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: November 14, 2006 at 10:45 PM
snhtown wrote:
99% of the time im not going to be playing my music loud, hell i hardly even listen to music while driving anymore(talk radio) i just want to have the ablitly thats all....if i kept the treble down will this help kept the tweets from sounding so hard to my ears? i suck because i want it to be bright but i dont....u know?
Get the CDT's. They are the most "not-bright" speakers I've ever used. Very much in contrast to other, mass-marketed companies like MBQuart or Infinity, you ought love thier natural, smooth sound. snhtown wrote:
sedate, one of my questions about the cdt's are what is the diffrence with all of them....i notice that one kind of speaker will have 3 differnt kinds of tweets, 3 differnt sets....so if i went with the cdt hd-62 and feed them 150 watts i should expect them not to last long?
Yea CDT has the most myriad of product lines if you look at them like that.. really they just mix and match the same motor on different cones, a couple of different xovers.. etc. When I was running my EF's, I was running them directly, no passive xovers, no tweeters, just the speaker and an aggressive gain setting. You'll be fine with them I'm quite sure. After you described your listening preferences, I can't imagine anything being better for ya. Really great sound from those, ya know... However, save urself $200 and get the EF series componets. They'll sound the same.. I promise. ------------- "I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
Posted By: jasondavis05
Date Posted: November 15, 2006 at 7:56 AM
I know this isn't the right place to drop this but...... If you want to try the CDT's cheep I have three sets left over from an install about a year ago. They are new in the box, never installed or wired up. They are CL-61 one set, HD-62 one set, and HD-52 one set. I can tell you that the HD's (62 and 52) will take 150 watts rms all day without a problem. I have pushed them very hard and never had a problem with the mids. Infact the xovers will cut the power by 30% when they get to hot, maybe sedate had a diffrent xover?? I don't have the grills for the 61's or 62's I'm not sure what happend to them?? Anyway if your intrested PM me or just send me an email. Thanks
Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: November 15, 2006 at 12:37 PM
jasondavis05 wrote:
Infact the xovers will cut the power by 30% when they get to hot, maybe sedate had a diffrent xover
Yea I wasn't using a passive xover. I was running my mid's straight. Maybe I was being to harsh on the CDT's. I think this guy should try them, especially after listing his listening preferences. ------------- "I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
Posted By: jasondavis05
Date Posted: November 15, 2006 at 4:17 PM
sedate wrote:
Yea I wasn't using a passive xover.
Ahhh now I see why they burned up. Yes if you skip the xover and run 150 watts bridged JL power to them or any other 6" mid they will fry in short order. Sorry I over looked in your post where you said you ran them straight to the amp. Although the watts aren't what did the deed as I'm sure you know distortion of the bridged amp is more likely the reaper of the mids.
Posted By: snhtown
Date Posted: November 15, 2006 at 5:16 PM
heres a dumb question.......what is a passive x/o? if i run the speakers from the amp, thoought the x/o, to the speakers feeding them 150 watts or so then i should be ok? sedate, the reason urs burnt up was because u did not use a x/o and ran them directly from the amp to the speakers? so the x/o's kind of act as a protector to the speakers from frying???? wow im confused
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: November 15, 2006 at 6:22 PM
jasondavis05 wrote:
sedate wrote:
Yea I wasn't using a passive xover.
Ahhh now I see why they burned up. Yes if you skip the xover and run 150 watts bridged JL power to them or any other 6" mid they will fry in short order. Sorry I over looked in your post where you said you ran them straight to the amp. Although the watts aren't what did the deed as I'm sure you know distortion of the bridged amp is more likely the reaper of the mids.
Wrong answer... Distortion does NOT kill speakers, POWER kills speakers.
Here's my system:
Link one...
Link two...
All active, no "protection" devices between amplifier and speaker, no passive crossovers anywhere in the car.
Never blown a speaker... not a tweeter, even with 85 watts, not a mid, even with 120 watts (and that's a 4" mid, BTW). Over 200 watts available to the Adire 6.8 woofers in the doors... Haven't blown those, either.
Here's one recent argument regarding "underpowering" and how the damage actually occurs! ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: jasondavis05
Date Posted: November 15, 2006 at 10:58 PM
haemphyst wrote:
Wrong answer... Distortion does NOT kill speakers, POWER kills speakers.
If distortion is the uneven movement of the voice coil and cone then how could it not?? If the power is clean it would take the voice coil jumping over the poll or an insane amount of power to burn the coil much like a light bulb. With distortion in the way and enough power to have the coil touch the poll causes a short and that is why they burn up. If you have distortion in the power more power will only make it worse.
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: November 16, 2006 at 8:32 AM
jasondavis05 wrote:
haemphyst wrote:
Wrong answer... Distortion does NOT kill speakers, POWER kills speakers.
If distortion is the uneven movement of the voice coil and cone then how could it not?? If the power is clean it would take the voice coil jumping over the poll or an insane amount of power to burn the coil much like a light bulb. With distortion in the way and enough power to have the coil touch the poll causes a short and that is why they burn up. If you have distortion in the power more power will only make it worse.
Again, POWER kills speakers, NOT DISTORTION. Pretend there is no such thing as distortion, anywhere on the planet, in any way, shape or form... If there is no such thing as distortion, it CANT blow a speaker, can it? Now that the imaginary monster distortion is out of the picture, what is left to blow speakers? That's right class, POWER. POWER blows speakers, NOT DISTORTION! jasondavis05, did you read any of those links I posted? I'll make it easy for you... Now, if you want to argue with THOSE guys, go ahead, but first read that link, thoroughly, and you'll understand what I am talking about.
(BTW, DYohn, there's you head banging aginst the wall smiley... See what you can do about adding that!)------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
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