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grounding kit, big 3, etc.


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and_2x4 
Member - Posts: 4
Member spacespace
Joined: October 31, 2008
Location: Brazil
Posted: October 31, 2008 at 7:31 PM / IP Logged  

Hello, Im from Brazil, i have read some topics, and i have questions:

Recently, more attention has been paid to the benefit of providing multiple ground points to an engine.  There have been plenty of articles in enthusiasts' magazines that show small but significant increases in horsepower by simply adding additional ground or "earthing" wires.  Here in the United States, "grounding" is the term used.  Practically every other English speaking country in the world calls it "earthing."

Conventional thinking used to be that grounding was an "all or nothing" phenomenon.  Either your car battery was grounded, or it wasn't.  The amount of electrical current running through the negative battery terminal is equal to that running through the positive end.  The battery represents part of a giant, complete circuit for everything electrical in the car, no matter how far away that component is from the battery, or more precisely, the battery ground.  

Doesn't grounding to two spots on the body and or motor cause potential ground loops? I thought you were only supposed to ground to one location (one spot on the body and one spot on the motor)... so wouldn't replacing the factory 8 guage ground wires with 4 guage be a better solution?


reax222 
Copper - Posts: 220
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 11, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: October 31, 2008 at 8:13 PM / IP Logged  
Your grounds need to be at least as big as the largest wire in your vehicle.
I don't believe you will have loops because once there will be no potential difference between the new ground points. The new points will read the exact same voltage as the original. The ground loops are created when amps and headunits have different voltages, caused by the ground. In theory (I haven't tried it anyway), if you put your leads on two grounding points the meter will read a VDC if a ground loop exist. By adding more grounds you should reduce the possibility of this.
and_2x4 
Member - Posts: 4
Member spacespace
Joined: October 31, 2008
Location: Brazil
Posted: October 31, 2008 at 8:48 PM / IP Logged  

thank you for reply my friend;

but, if one wire or ground point have a lower resistence than other, this doesn't sufficient to cause a ground loop?

i have read this on http://www.k0bg.com/loops.html

"The term Ground Loop in itself isn't very descriptive, but here's a stab at it with credit going to Mr. Webster: An unwanted electric current path in a circuit resulting in stray signals or interference, occurring, e.g., when two earthed points in the same circuit have different potentials. Please pay particular attention the last few words: ...when two earthed points in the same circuit have different potentials. Another way to look at this is, one is a better ground than the other. Or, one has a lower resistance path back to the power source; the battery in this case."

 

reax222 
Copper - Posts: 220
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 11, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: October 31, 2008 at 10:08 PM / IP Logged  
By adding a wire to the existing body ground, the current has two paths back to the battery. Only the voltage provide can come back to the battery. Worst case is the body only allows 6v for a ground (which should be 12v), the wire can provide extra or replace the current return path. Like water, electricity flows down the easiest path, if the body panel is a sufficient ground then very little will flow down the wire, being that the body is a larger path.
The real idea here is that pinch welds and bolts may not provide the best conduction. The ground octopus idea bypasses any weak points in the electrical conductivity of the body. If you use sufficient (the same as size as the positive) then in effect you would be grounding the entire vehicle to the body with only the resistance of the wire.
I think I am explaining this correctly, but we are getting into electron flow, and I am alittle weak on the subject.
reax222 
Copper - Posts: 220
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 11, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: October 31, 2008 at 10:23 PM / IP Logged  
I reread your post and I think I know what your saying. You are worried about the resistance in the wire to your grounding point from the battery creating a voltage loss?
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
Here says ohms per foot of 8ga should be about 0.0002485ohms. actually they give 0.2485/1000ft, but you get the idea. Call it 0.0002ohms and the difference between 1ft and 20ft is 0.0047215ohms. I believe as long as you don't exceed the recommended 135amps you shouldn't see a voltage loss since Ohms law says that resistance is capable of transmitting 2880amps at 13.6v, but I wouldn't try it, it'll probably melt down.
and_2x4 
Member - Posts: 4
Member spacespace
Joined: October 31, 2008
Location: Brazil
Posted: October 31, 2008 at 11:15 PM / IP Logged  

i worried about the two or more ground points in the negative of battery to the chassis, can cause ground loop;  it do the big 3 and maintain the original wires

i have adding one more wire to the negative battery terminal at another point in the chassis

I could be wrong on this but I though that a ground loop was when the ground signal could travel across two paths back to the battery with varying resistance (I'm certainly no expert on this and this could be totally wrong, I just though this was the theory.)

reax222 
Copper - Posts: 220
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 11, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: October 31, 2008 at 11:51 PM / IP Logged  
No. The easiest way I can think of a ground loop is where your radio has a voltage of 13.5v then your amp has a voltage of 13.2v. The 0.3v difference will transit down the shielding of the co-axial wire and induce noise. I am too tired to remember why the extra ground voltage traveling on the shield makes noise, but this is what's considered a ground loop problem.
If the voltages are equal at both the headunit and the amp, then co-axial wire is neutral to vehicle and only carries your music. The way to make both equal is to ensure you can get enough power to it and return it to the battery. Power is isolated in it's own wire, so you have a limited/known/constant resistance. The ground however has other returns and will have an unknown/less constant resistance. Basically you know the power wire going to the head unit and amp can carry 12v to them. Because the alt/battery ground on the firewall the headunit should have a clean ground path. All the way in the rear of a car, there is probably poor contact surfaces. Running a new wire around those and directly to the panel the amp grounds to gives you as clean of a ground path as the headunit has. Basically eliminating a ground loop.
Please double check me here, but I think I have it right.
and_2x4 
Member - Posts: 4
Member spacespace
Joined: October 31, 2008
Location: Brazil
Posted: November 01, 2008 at 7:45 AM / IP Logged  
ok my friend, thank you for attention
reax222 
Copper - Posts: 220
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 11, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: November 01, 2008 at 3:03 PM / IP Logged  
I love critical thinking so if you still have questions, please ask. When it gets over my head there are plenty of people here who can help.

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