the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
icon

Positive to Negative / Vanagon door lock


Post ReplyPost New Topic
< Prev Topic Next Topic >
12vqwerty 
Member - Posts: 8
Member spacespace
Joined: October 30, 2012
Location: California, United States
Posted: October 02, 2016 at 2:02 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote 12vqwerty
I have an 87 Volkswagen Vanagon with power windows and locks. I use a TWINDOW roll up module for my express window functions and find the TWINDOW to be the best module ever.
    I have been playing with using the constant 12V output of the lock actuator when the door is locked. My goal is to raise the window with the key when locking the door. I need to convert the + signal to a - signal which is easy with a relay. When I do that the Relay remains hot always and sucks my battery.
    I've recently bought a "Adjustable 0-10 Seconds Time Timer Delay Module Switch NE555 Oscillator DC 12V U" which works fine but remains hot at all time when the door is locked. I want to find some way to shut it off after it does its job. I also want to add a relay in,that will be NC at rest and NO with key on to prevent the window going up when the door is locked during normal operation.
    I have looked at the 528t pulse timer and can not see its function for my use. It looks to me that the NE555 does almost the same function as the 528T.
    I hope this all makes sense. Any answers are appreciated. I have used this forum for years to solve my electrical incompetence and look to the pros for guidance.
lurch228 
Silver - Posts: 1,338
Silver spacespace
Joined: August 08, 2012
Posted: October 02, 2016 at 8:15 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote lurch228
The pulse timmer will connect to the Negative from the door lock direct and then set it for the maxium time to completely roll up the window , but if the windows is not all the way down you will continue to power the window when all the way up until the 528t times out.
A 529t or 530t will be a better match for you desire and will load out and shut off when the window hits the top.
12vqwerty 
Member - Posts: 8
Member spacespace
Joined: October 30, 2012
Location: California, United States
Posted: October 02, 2016 at 10:08 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote 12vqwerty
The TWINDOW module handles all of that as it senses over powering and shuts off.
   What I am trying to do is find a way for the relay to shut off after it does its job.
    I let a relay stay latched last night and shot it with an IR gun and it was 108 Degrees F. I was hoping to put it in a project box, but maybe I need a smaller relay. The one I am using is a regular 40/50a relay.
    Can someone point me to a mini relay that is normally closed?
Stacy     
geepherder 
Platinum - Posts: 3,668
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: October 27, 2003
Posted: October 03, 2016 at 7:38 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote geepherder
If your relay is staying engaged, test the door lock actuator wires. If the wire you are connected to stays positive after you press the lock button (even after you've taken your finger off the button), you can use a capacitor inline with your relay coil.
Something like this might work:
https://www.the12volt.com/relays/relaydiagram44.html
If the lock actuator wire does not stay positive after you've taken your finger off the button, do away with the 555 timer and just use a relay:
https://www.the12volt.com/relays/relaydiagram9.html
My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.
12vqwerty 
Member - Posts: 8
Member spacespace
Joined: October 30, 2012
Location: California, United States
Posted: October 09, 2016 at 11:30 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote 12vqwerty
So I have all the parts to build this and have been studying its function.
    I need some help understanding how it works. I understand that the Capacitor releases its charge and then in turns give a Momentary output which powers the module. But if the input Pos input is constant wouldn't it just reload the Cap and keep on going?
    My door lock system is different from the standard 5 wire relay which just uses a momentary signal. The signal is constant 12V when locked and constant 12V when Unlocked on each of the supply wires.
    Am I missing something here.
Stacy
lurch228 
Silver - Posts: 1,338
Silver spacespace
Joined: August 08, 2012
Posted: October 10, 2016 at 1:44 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote lurch228
The capacitor isn't releasing, it's charging due to the flow of current until charged then no current flow and relay coil de-energizes. And stays off until 12v is removed allowing cap to discharge thru resistor to reset. As the resistor can't pass enough current to keep relay energized but holds back enough current to keep capacitor charged until 12v is removed.
12vqwerty 
Member - Posts: 8
Member spacespace
Joined: October 30, 2012
Location: California, United States
Posted: October 10, 2016 at 1:04 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote 12vqwerty
Thank you. I will now go ahead and build it and hope for the best.
Luckily the components are cheap enough.
    I have built a few things from diagrams here and they have always worked well, so here it goes.
Stacy
12vqwerty 
Member - Posts: 8
Member spacespace
Joined: October 30, 2012
Location: California, United States
Posted: October 10, 2016 at 8:08 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote 12vqwerty
So I've built it and it works. If I doubled the Capacitor would I also have to change the resistance as well? If so could I just add another resistor on the end or would I have to get a different resistor?
     I will install it and see if it is enough of a signal to do the job?
     Off to R/S for a larger Capacitor or just another 1kUf?
 Stacy
geepherder 
Platinum - Posts: 3,668
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: October 27, 2003
Posted: October 10, 2016 at 10:20 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote geepherder
If you increase the value of the capacitor, it increases the time it takes to charge (which increases length of the momentary pulse output by the relay).
As Lurch said, it is the job of the resistor to discharge the capacitor once power is removed, so it has nothing to do with the timing.
The relay coil acts as a charging resistor for the capacitor. So, with a larger value capacitor, to keep the pulse the same length, you could wire a resistor in parallel with the relay coil.
If you want to learn more about basic timing circuits, read about capacitors and time constants. Transistors are helpful too.
My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.
lurch228 
Silver - Posts: 1,338
Silver spacespace
Joined: August 08, 2012
Posted: October 11, 2016 at 3:33 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote lurch228
As Howie II always says KISS.
So 1 larger cap is better than 2, less failure points.
A "lower" or parallel resistor(s) can used up to the point that the relay will turn on due to enough current to close the relay. If the larger cap bleeds off (Resets)to slow.
But this will also increase the ma consumed while locked (+12v) is connected to relay, so go up on cap first and resistor last. As resistor is always bleeding just not faster than the cap can charge. So the higher, the better.
But a faster bleed (Reset) will slow cap charge (on time) also.
Need to find the ratio that works for you application. Miniuim cap to achieve time on with the highest resistor that can bleed cap to Reset.
Page of 2

  Printable version Printable version Post ReplyPost New Topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

  •  
Search the12volt.com
Follow the12volt.com Follow the12volt.com on Facebook
Thursday, March 28, 2024 • Copyright © 1999-2024 the12volt.com, All Rights Reserved Privacy Policy & Use of Cookies
Disclaimer: *All information on this site ( the12volt.com ) is provided "as is" without any warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including but not limited to fitness for a particular use. Any user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and use of this information. Please verify all wire colors and diagrams before applying any information.

Secured by Sectigo
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
Support the12volt.com
Top
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer