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Relays with a diode


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kaffeene 
Member - Posts: 43
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Posted: March 12, 2004 at 3:25 PM / IP Logged  

Hey I am a little confused about something so I appreciate help.

If you have a relay  you would connect a diode in parallel with the coil between teminal 85 and 86, say 86 is the positive side so the cathode is on that side. RIght??    Now  you flip your switch off and you have a reverse voltage spike from the relay coil.  Since its a reverse voltage I assume it come back from the relay coil through terminal 86 (positive) back down your wire.  I'm confused about this, how does connecting it in parallel help?  It would seem wiring the diode inline with the positive terminal with the cathode facing the relay would work.   That way the cathode prevents voltage from passing unless of course it is more than the diode can handle.

Also what would be the best way to connect wires to a relay?  Would you use female disconnects? If you soldered how would you insulate the bare wire so it didn't touch the other contacts?

Help

xetmes 
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Posted: March 12, 2004 at 4:22 PM / IP Logged  
kaffeene 
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Posted: March 12, 2004 at 4:32 PM / IP Logged  
Well thats good and all but I understand what it does just dont understand the path it takes.   Someone in that thread said anode to positive side, thats wrong no.. you would have a short.    I basically dont understand why the path of voltage would chose to come out of the terminal and turn to the relay .. instead of going straight down the wire to the components or switch.
markcars 
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Posted: March 12, 2004 at 4:40 PM / IP Logged  
the diode is only there to suppress any reverse voltage given back from the relay coil when it stops from being energized (in order to protect sensitive devices).
and positive goes to anode, that is correct. check the relay section. side with stripe is cathode and other side is anode. voltage flows through the diode from anode to cathode and stops any voltage the other way.
xetmes 
Silver - Posts: 586
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Joined: May 18, 2003
Posted: March 12, 2004 at 4:52 PM / IP Logged  

Ok ill try to clear it up if possible.

If we apply a voltage to a relay we build a magnetic field in the coil of the relay. This produces the magnetic field to operate the relay. (im sure you understand this part). Since the relay coil has an impedence it will have a voltage drop on it (the supply voltage) and a current through it.

The current through an inductor (like the coil of a relay) has a current flowing through it that can not change instantaneously. So even if voltage is removed there will still be a current through the inductor.

The current through and inductor is equal to L (di / dt), the time derivative of the current times the inductance.

Since the inductance is constant it really doesnt matter here. The derivative however shows that the voltage will be proportonal to the change in current. When we remove the voltage from the coil the current decreases drastically. Meaning the voltage across the coil will become a very large negative voltage.

So now we know that when power is removed from the relay we will cause a very large negative voltage. Now why is a diode used??

Capacitors used to be used to lower the voltage a bit since the voltage on a cap can not change instantaneously, now most people would rather use diodes. Why? It takes a little understanding of the diode.

Silicon diodes mostly used today have an electric field potential inside of around 0.7 V, this voltage is not a constant however, it will change depending on the current through the diode. The thing is it changes very little, to rise the voltage just a few millivolts may require amps of current. So the voltage across a forward biased diode will never change much from 0.7V.

On a reverse biased diode the diode appears to be an open so the voltage drop is zero and the current is zero.

Tie it all together:

We now see that if we place a diode across the coil opposite of the supplied turn on voltage the diode will be reversed biased and not alter the circuit.

But we see that the reverse voltage caused by the decrease in current is going to forward bias the diode. Since the diode becomes forward biased the voltage across it will not exceed around 0.7 V, and the diode will pass the current from the magnetic field. So the reverse voltage stays below 1V and doesnt harm electronics.

Hope that helps, sorry it was so long...

markcars 
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Posted: March 13, 2004 at 7:44 AM / IP Logged  
xetmes, good explanation.
would it not be good idea to have the quencher diode across all relays? since diodes are so cheap, why not use them for all relays? Just a question.
kaffeene 
Member - Posts: 43
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Joined: March 11, 2004
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Posted: March 13, 2004 at 3:29 PM / IP Logged  
thanks... whats the best way to hook diodes up to the terminals of a relay along with the other wires?
xetmes 
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Joined: May 18, 2003
Posted: March 13, 2004 at 4:24 PM / IP Logged  

markcars, I use diodes on all relays because as you said they are very cheap, dont see why you wouldnt.

the easiest way is usually just to get a socket for the relay that already includes the diode, watch your polarity though. Partsexpess has them: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=330-076

markcars 
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Posted: March 14, 2004 at 10:02 AM / IP Logged  
as xetmes said, you can buy them readymade (however make sure you connect 85 and 86 with right polarity.
If you have to connect a diode to a relay, still same thing, pins 85 and 86 always are the ones needin a quenching diode. Make sure the polarity of the diode is right whereby you dont short it.
+ve goes to diode's "ring end" also called cathode. -ve goes to other end.
bradleonard 
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Joined: August 12, 2002
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Posted: March 23, 2004 at 2:55 PM / IP Logged  

Here is my question regarding diodes and relays

All the diodes that I have seen and used have an amperage rating. The biggest amperage rating I have been able to find is a 3.0 AMP diode. Will a diode rated at 3.0 amps only block 3 amps before it does nothing anymore?

I soldered a 3 amp Diode across the 85 and 86 pins of a relay that was attached to a circuit with a 25 amp circuit breaker. When I applied power to either side of the relay coil, the diode caused power to show up on the other side of the relay, therefore causing a short when ground is applied.  Why would this happen, does it have to do with the rating of the relay?

thanks

werd
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