Whats better, 2 12's or a 15

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sedate

Silver - Posts: 1,173

Joined: July 03, 2004

Location: Colorado, United States

Posted: September 13, 2005 at 12:52 PM / IP Logged

Huh? I mean, I didn't think anything you said was wrong, I was just being a little incubus. And I, like uthink, like to throw crap at JL woofers. I can't begin to tell you how much distaste I have for my $500 w6 eh?

Naww, I actually think the w1 looks pretty good. Much more substantial than the little hockey puck magnet on the w0. I like the new cone to. Decent excursion for the RMS and push-pin connections.

If I get a chance to take a listen, I'll let ya know.

"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Poormanq45

Silver - Posts: 597

Joined: October 27, 2004

Location: United States

Posted: September 13, 2005 at 12:56 PM / IP Logged

I don't think you'll get a 2dB increase using two 12s over 1 15in sub.

The cone area difference is ~30% more for the 2 12s. Now using the basic rule of thumb that a doubling of cone area equals a 3dB increase we find out that you would get ~0.9dB increase with the 2 12s.

Now this is assuming that ALL variables remain the same. If anything else changes then you can't make any arguement for or against either.

I have a question: Why do people have a misconception that a larger sub will be able to play lower frequencies at higher amplitudes? EVERYTHING depends on the SD of the driver. It's possible to have a 12 that has a higher SD then a 15 if the 12 has a long excursion, and the 15 has a short excursion.

Paradigm

Silver - Posts: 284

Joined: November 25, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: September 13, 2005 at 2:53 PM / IP Logged

Yay! Sedate wins the booby prize for accurately explaining cone AREA versus cone DIAMETER. (sorry to those who thought 2x12" = 24" of cone area)

Second place goes to Poormanq45 for epounding on the virtues of size versus frequency.

And the top award for best flame goes to tcss for, "Did the JL truck run over your wagon when you were a child?" ROFL gotta love the wit!

Good job, guys. Thanks for making the day a little brighter Whats better, 2 12's or a 15 - Page 3 -- posted image.

VEHICLE: 2002 GMC Sonoma ZR2

Alpine CDA-7940

AudioControl EQT x2

JL Audio 1000/1

JL Audio 10W6 (originals) x3

Kicker ZR120

Kicker ZR460

Polk GXR-6 x4

Polk GXR-4 x2

tcss

Silver - Posts: 1,623

Joined: June 07, 2004

Location: United States

Posted: September 13, 2005 at 6:00 PM / IP Logged

Thank you guys for finally showing up. Sedate, Poorman and Paradigm, you made my day.

sedate

Silver - Posts: 1,173

Joined: July 03, 2004

Location: Colorado, United States

Posted: September 13, 2005 at 11:20 PM / IP Logged

The booby prize!! Woot!

Poormanq45 wrote:

Why do people have a misconception that a larger sub will be able to play lower frequencies at higher amplitudes? EVERYTHING depends on the SD of the driver. It's possible to have a 12 that has a higher SD then a 15 if the 12 has a long excursion, and the 15 has a short excursion.

Uhh.. dude. The radiating area of the driver (sd) is inherently tied to the diameter of the driver.... i mean.. common sense tells us that.

The excursion thing? A 12" with a long excursion will have a larger surround, thus, LESS radiating area, while a 15 with a small excursion will have a smaller surround, thus MORE radiating area.

"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

uthinkuknoaudio

Silver - Posts: 760

Joined: October 08, 2004

Location: United States

Posted: September 14, 2005 at 6:49 PM / IP Logged

lol, people trying to tell me about SD.

My when I was your age, Denon just came out!

Now,i've had 30 years of install/audio experience, and more cars than i can count. I am a professional electrical engineer as well. I dominate with audiophile and SQ knowledge that could make your brain fold in. U think U know audio, you are wrong tcss. last time i checked 30 > ur X years (if they are valid)...

JL's truck sucks... They are garbage (W1v2) as well as 1/2 off there other products. I'll never buy a JL product as they are overpriced. Don't say what bug jumped in my ass about them, many years of working with their equipment makes me disfavor it over other better brands for less money.

All you need to do is 2x power to take advantage of efficiency is you do it right. By the way, if you don't know what impact is, you are an idiot.

Impact is the physical measurement of how much sound you feel from low frequencies (aka how hard your subs hit). No tool, just pure physical measurement. My 3 15"s will hit harder than 1 10 obviously. You can tell when you get in the cars!

IMPACT IS NOT EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR ALL PEOPLE...just bassheads or SQ people that tend to like bass.... :)

"I don't play games. I play Nakamichi and that for real yo" - Probably some japanese kid said this in the early 80's trying to sell stereo out of his trunk lol.

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tcss

Silver - Posts: 1,623

Joined: June 07, 2004

Location: United States

Posted: September 14, 2005 at 7:54 PM / IP Logged

You really got to start talking in complete sentences it makes you sound much more intelligent. That's just how long I've owned my store(s). Do you know what a Craig power play is? Who made the first coaxial car speaker?Who made the first car stereo amp? Who is Rich Coe? What was the best woofer Car Audio Magazine ever tested? I'll give you this one ( 12" JL W6V2 ) Best car they ever heard? ( JLs Mini ). You really should consider anger management. I started doing this when I was 18 in a real live stereo shop. 1973 but who' counting.

What is "impact " measured in? Wrench units?

Twice the power only gives you 3 db.

Happy Trails

stevdart

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Joined: January 24, 2004

Location: Pennsylvania, United States

Posted: September 14, 2005 at 8:23 PM / IP Logged

uthinkuknoaudio wrote:

I dominate with audiophile and SQ knowledge that could make your brain fold in.

Just luv that line. Don't mind if I quote you in my sig line, do you?

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

Glowinlow22

Copper - Posts: 93

Joined: October 24, 2004

Location: United States

Posted: September 14, 2005 at 9:55 PM / IP Logged

as a nice comparison on cheap setups i offer up my 2 systems, system one is a sony head unit, an alpine m350 amp running at 2 ohms and a cerwin vega 15 hed sub in a sealed enclosure...the second system is an ma audio amp running 180watts per channel to 2 kicker comp 12" subs in a ported box being run by a pioneer head unit, both systems are loud but i've had both boxes in my car being powered by the same amp with 12ga power wire.

the 15 hits hard enough to vibrate windows and cars around me modeled it shows 119 db i have yet to have the car metered but i know its extremely loud, with the same amp setup for the 2 12s i lose alittle bit of volume, keep in mind both setups run at 2 ohm given my choice i prefer the 15, and as for 15s being slow, i can play 50 cent or 36 mafia and pound nice and low all day then throw in some mudvayne or better yet dream theater and the sub keeps up just fine with the technical bass drum parts, never sounds sloppy or behind the beat at all, grand total for the setups......the 15" and alpine i've got about 350 in with the box, with the ma audio amp and 2 kickers and a store bought box i've got a little under 400, both systems are very loud and fill the need very nicely, and buy local it saves headaches later, i orginally had a memphis audio pr15 dvc sub but it blew up and no local dealers so i had to get it online, i went local afterwards spent twice as much and blew up my next cv sub but the dealer looked at it and replaced it no hassles...anyone local to osage beach check out epic audio awsome customer service, there is also a store in kansas somewhere :).

Velocity Motors

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Joined: March 08, 2002

Location: Manitoba, Canada

Posted: September 14, 2005 at 9:59 PM / IP Logged

I love seeing brain vs brain here on the forums. In the end it's opinion vs opinion or experience vs what is written in a magazine. Just had to throw in my 2c's on this pride crushing issue

Jeff

Velocity Custom Home Theater

Mobile Audio/Video Specialist

Morden, Manitoba CANADA

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