the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
icon

when do amps give full power


Post ReplyPost New Topic
< Prev Topic Next Topic >
jerryfreeman 
Member - Posts: 8
Member spacespace
Joined: September 20, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 22, 2006 at 12:41 AM / IP Logged  

Hi guyz,

Question: When does a amp give full power?  For instance...if you had a 500 watt amp on a 500 watt sub, bridged & wired all correctly. When will that sub see 500 watts.  I have always thought as soon as the amp comes on the power out is what the amp is rated at.   Is the gain setting the "regulator" of how much power goes out?  Then what about the volume on the source unit?

caraudio904 
Copper - Posts: 115
Copper spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: August 30, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 22, 2006 at 2:51 AM / IP Logged  
More than likely depending on the class and or brand it will probably never get 500 watts. Those usually say max. Example: 500 watts max. If you get a good class d amp it will see 500 watts whenever it puts out
Southern Stylez
Jacksonville, FL 32218
jlord16 
Silver - Posts: 322
Silver spacespace
Joined: September 08, 2005
Location: Australia
Posted: September 22, 2006 at 3:19 AM / IP Logged  
The maximum output of an amp is simply derived from ohms law.  It is the maximium power that can be theoretically produced without fuses blowing, excess heat and such.  The gain is more of an amplification factor , setting your volume and gain on full may not get maximum power from your amp.  Very high quality amps will come close to there maximum output and for a split second might reach there max but dont count on it.  Cheaper amps will very rarely reach there maximum power.  Thats why RMS is more commonly used
Clarion DB36MP
Infinity Kappa Perfect 10"
Respone 800w Mono
ALPINE MRP-F250
*Custom fabrications*
Steven Kephart 
Platinum - Posts: 1,737
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: September 22, 2006 at 3:23 AM / IP Logged  
Even if it is rated at Rms, you probably still won't ever see 500 watts. This is because manufacturers usually round power ratings up, and when you add power supply sag the actual power produced is much lower than specified. However, does it really matter? Just because 420 watts is going to your sub instead of 500 watts, you won't hear the difference anyway. But if you really are concerned about this and your amp can in fact produce 500 watts, then the most likely time it will produce this is when a peak in the source material is at a frequency where the impedance of the subwoofer is at it's minimum.
The gain control optimizes the ratio of the input signal to the output signal. In other words, you want the gain set to where when the input signal clips, the output clips at that same time. This will optimize the clean power available. It is NOT a volume control and improper settings could result in a blown subwoofer.
I'd suggest heading on over to www.bcae1.com and do some serious reading. It will explain how all this stuff works in a very easy to understand manner.
bellsracer 
Silver - Posts: 703
Silver spacespace
Joined: January 14, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 22, 2006 at 4:22 AM / IP Logged  

And also consider how the amps are measured as well. Some companies measure their outputs at different voltages. One company measures their amps output at 48 volts which no consumer car that we are aware of runs on. To get a better rough idea of how much your amp puts out peak is to take the fuse rating and multiply it by the vehicle's voltage at idle. For example, say you have a 1400 watt amp that has a 30 amp fuse in it. 30amps x 14.4 volts = 432 watts from the amp. So that 1400 watt amp is really 432 watts.

If you are looking for an amp that truly hits 500 watts cleanly, look for amps that are CEA compliant. That means they have been tested at the specific settings for the test. It's currently optional for manufacturers to do it, but if you get a hold of one, they will consistantly put out the rated power with no problems.

Never send your ducks to eagle school.
The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra.
The 3Ls of life: Learn from the Past, Live for the Present, Look to the Future.
jerryfreeman 
Member - Posts: 8
Member spacespace
Joined: September 20, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 22, 2006 at 12:23 PM / IP Logged  

Wow thanks guys!

Just in case a few of  you wondering...I have a "rockford fosgate mono block 600" rated @ 600watts rms x1 @ 2ohm.  Pushing two rockford fosgate- punch p2 10"s @4 ohm 200watts rms each.   My main concern is am  I putting  too much power to my subs ??

haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,054
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: September 23, 2006 at 10:31 AM / IP Logged  
jerryfreeman wrote:

Hi guyz,

Question: When does a amp give full power?  For instance...if you had a 500 watt amp on a 500 watt sub, bridged & wired all correctly. When will that sub see 500 watts.  I have always thought as soon as the amp comes on the power out is what the amp is rated at.   Is the gain setting the "regulator" of how much power goes out?  Then what about the volume on the source unit?

His question was NOT whether his particular amp will ever make 500 watts, his question was WHEN does ANY amplifer ever produce 500 watts. (If for example, the amp WAS capable of really producing 500 watts.) I am also REALLY curious to know why everybody automatically assumed his amp would never make a real 500 watts... He provided us with a hypothetical situation, with an empirical result expected... A perfectly reasonable request.
Your answer is not an easy one. Since an amplifier is simply a voltage matching device, it will all be based on MANY factors. With no load, there is no power, however, there can still be voltages present on the terminals. The gain of an amplifier is fixed, and is expressed in dB of gain, and the "gain control" is incorrectly named such - it is FAR more properly described as a level matching device (or stage). All that being said, an amplifier does not "produce" 500 watts, just because it is turned on. The input voltage must be high enough to drive the output stages to maximum rail voltage.
Maximum rail voltage at the terminals, without clipping the output waveform is maximum power, and will be different with EVERY amplifier, manufacturer, amplifier class, and amplifier topology. It is FAR too complex to discuss completely in this forum, however, simply put, maximum rail voltage at the terminals, without clipping the output waveform is maximum power.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
stevdart 
Platinum - Posts: 5,816
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: September 23, 2006 at 4:03 PM / IP Logged  

Good answer, haemphyst, and to the point of the question. 

An easy way to see how the power output curve steepens when you get toward the high end of the scale is to use a DMM and measure output voltage at increasingly higher levels of output.  You will find it notably surprising that your normal listening levels are far, far below rated output.  It is only at the very end of the volume excursion of the dial that the measured voltage increases dramatically, and that area is often louder than what is comfortable for in-car listening.

When you have the volume at a level where normal conversation can occur, you are probably around 1 or 2 watts.  If it's more than that, it's not by much.

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
greenbroncoguy 
Copper - Posts: 299
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 27, 2003
Location: Florida, United States
Posted: September 23, 2006 at 7:58 PM / IP Logged  
stevdart wrote:

Good answer, haemphyst, and to the point of the question. 

An easy way to see how the power output curve steepens when you get toward the high end of the scale is to use a DMM and measure output voltage at increasingly higher levels of output.  You will find it notably surprising that your normal listening levels are far, far below rated output.  It is only at the very end of the volume excursion of the dial that the measured voltage increases dramatically, and that area is often louder than what is comfortable for in-car listening.

When you have the volume at a level where normal conversation can occur, you are probably around 1 or 2 watts.  If it's more than that, it's not by much.

this seems way too easy and probably is not the way to measure amplifier output(takes special equiptment right?) but with your system on can you just measure the voltage output of your amp and get a ballpark figure of what wattage it is putting out,? Doesn't seem like this owuld work as I assume it would be dependant on what driver.impedance it is hooked to but...

Steven Kephart 
Platinum - Posts: 1,737
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: September 23, 2006 at 8:51 PM / IP Logged  
To properly measure amplifier power you need a power supply able to supply all the current the amplifier will need, a known resistive load (at Adire we used a coil of wire submerged in water), a voltage meter, and a signal generator or other source material.
Page of 3

  Printable version Printable version Post ReplyPost New Topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

  •  
Search the12volt.com
Follow the12volt.com Follow the12volt.com on Facebook
Wednesday, May 15, 2024 • Copyright © 1999-2024 the12volt.com, All Rights Reserved Privacy Policy & Use of Cookies
Disclaimer: *All information on this site ( the12volt.com ) is provided "as is" without any warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including but not limited to fitness for a particular use. Any user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and use of this information. Please verify all wire colors and diagrams before applying any information.

Secured by Sectigo
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
Support the12volt.com
Top
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer