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Can these x-overs be used on other spkrs?


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bill/t/d/y 
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Member spacespace
Joined: December 01, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: December 01, 2006 at 4:57 PM / IP Logged  
I recently aquired a pair of JL audio XR400-CX crossovers in a parts box purchase.I was wondering how I can find out what they are rated for and if these can potentialy be used on any other speaker systems.Does anyone have ANY information on these X-overs specificaly or any potential suggestions in general that may help?I already found the JL site and have e-mailed them for information.Awaiting the responce.Also I do already know that these are/were part of a component coaxial spkr that JL sold.
master5 
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Silver spacespace
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Posted: December 01, 2006 at 5:30 PM / IP Logged  

well if they are designed for 4ohm..and you use 4ohm components..they will probably be pretty close to use..at least alot better then no x-over at all. It is a big longshot they will be perfect if used with another brand..but you asked if they potentailly could work and I would say yes, there is potential

Steven Kephart 
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Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: December 01, 2006 at 6:03 PM / IP Logged  
Although you could use them with other speakers, you probably won't get very good results.  Crossovers are designed to obtain a predetermined response by working with the acoustic and electrical response of both the tweeter and midrange.  I doubt you would be able to find any other driver on the market that would have the same acoustic and electrical properties.  Think about it as purchasing multiple puzzle pieces from one puzzle to use in another puzzle.  Unless it is for the same picture, your results will most likely be confusing.
master5 
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Silver spacespace
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Posted: December 01, 2006 at 6:38 PM / IP Logged  

true steven..but chances are those JL x-overs are simple 12db per octive..a cap and a coil..so only the cross over points will be different..but also why I state "potentially" will work...would need quite a bit more info before any accurate results could be posted. Now those particular x-overs are for a 4'' coax with seperate leads for the tweets..so if you use it with a larger speaker it most likely will not give has much low end response as the larger speaker can reproduce..but once again it is guess work at this point..we only have "potential".

Heres the specs i could find...

Technical Specification

Sensitivity: 85 dB
RMS Power Range : 40 Watts
Peak Power Handling: 80 Watts
Frequency response: 57-25000 Hz
Diameter: 4 Inch 
 
Features
4-inch (100 mm) Coaxial
0.75-inch (19 mm) Aluminum Dome Tweeter
Rec. Amp Power: 15 - 75 Watts
85.0 dB Efficiency @ 1W/1m
FR: 57 Hz - 25 KHz ± 3 dB 

Steven Kephart 
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Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
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Posted: December 01, 2006 at 7:30 PM / IP Logged  
I doubt that.  For one thing, they probably have some level matching of the tweeter.  But even if you are right about the design, you would be surprised at how much the proper cap and coil can have on the final response.  For one thing, the awg of the coil wire will effect the final impedance of the drivers.  And a poorly chosen crossover point and slope for the drivers will efect things like comb filtering and dips and peaks in the midrange response, the point where our ears are most sensitive to such issues.  It's not as simple as putting the same size speakers at the same nominal impedance and expecting the same results, or even similar.  As I've said before, two 4 ohm speakers of different make can have vast different measured impedances at different frequencies.  Going back to my puzzle analogy, do you think the final picture would still look ideal even if both original puzzles had the same number of pieces?  Can these x-overs be used on other spkrs? -- posted image.
master5 
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Silver spacespace
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Posted: December 01, 2006 at 7:50 PM / IP Logged  

I hear ya steve..and it makes sense to me as well, there are so many factors involved in addition such as placment, time alignment , phasing, acoustics, reflections etc..

But I am an experimenter so if I just had a set of x-overs laying aroung..and some components of a different model or brand lying around..I would have no fear of hooking it up just to see if it works.

But your statement would most likely be the reason it  wouldn't sound that great..but stranger things have happened.

Back in the day when I would build my own passives I would use the specs of the speakers to determine my points..I always used 12db except on subs i would go 6db with these ginormous inductors..they were like 100 bucks each and the ohms value of the sub(s) would help me determine the henries..as well as the crossover frequency I desired. in some instances I would use 18db for tweets..or build bandpasses for midbass..and that presents even more of a challenge..things on paper do not always do whats expected in a mobile environment for so many reasons... it would take experimenting with different values for the mids/highs/center ..as well as placment to find the "sweet" spot.

Has far as basic component sets..to me it's just plug and play.

Thanks for responding.

bill/t/d/y 
Member - Posts: 9
Member spacespace
Joined: December 01, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: December 01, 2006 at 11:05 PM / IP Logged  

Technical Specification

Sensitivity: 85 dB
RMS Power Range : 40 Watts
Peak Power Handling: 80 Watts
Frequency response: 57-25000 Hz
Diameter: 4 Inch 
 
Features
4-inch (100 mm) Coaxial
0.75-inch (19 mm) Aluminum Dome Tweeter
Rec. Amp Power: 15 - 75 Watts
85.0 dB Efficiency @ 1W/1m
FR: 57 Hz - 25 KHz ± 3 dB 

Yes basicaly thats what I have found so far for specs.But that should be the sum total spec sheet for the speaker as a unit.What I asked JL for is the specific specs for the x-overs themselves.I like to tinker as well so always doing things like changing finals and drivers for CB's and trying gears on the chainsaw bike I built about 10 yrs ago.(long story)I know that for idealy passive x-overs are desighned for a specific speaker.Per speaker.But back when i messed with car audio(Pyle was top shelf back then)They made generic passive x-overs that were basicaly bandpass filters.These were mass produced and sold at like wal-mart.Todays market is more high tech and was hopein to not needlessly ruin these units experimenting.

I guess and hope that when i hook thses up they will basicaly/roughly filter out some of the highs and or bass.They are 2-way so should at least provide some seperation.They also have a REF.   /  -3db   for the tweet so if set to -3db they should at least filter well enuff to allow better seperation of highs from bass.I imagine that i'll have to use the high side of the head unit to use these things as there is no RCA jack indicating potential for low side useage.

If I get serious enuff I'll break out the ole winding jig I used to use to wind coild for antennas and build my own.LOL t

Thanx for the quick responce and hope to find more info as time goes on....Bill

master5 
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Silver spacespace
Joined: October 10, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: December 01, 2006 at 11:18 PM / IP Logged  

The ref-3db should have nothing to do with the crossover point..but will attenuate the highs 3db in the event they are to loud or harsh.

But basically that is what a simple cross over like that should do..filter out highs to the bass speaker..and filter out lows to the tweeters..nothing else magical or high tech circuitry going on inside there except maybe a protection circuit..you will know when you encounter that because the tweets will attenuate by themselves or completly shut off until you lower the volume. If that happens lower the gains.

Good luck experimenting around..lets us know if you got them to sound decent.

master5 
Silver - Posts: 1,123
Silver spacespace
Joined: October 10, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: December 01, 2006 at 11:30 PM / IP Logged  

oh..and as far as an amp...the crossover can not tell the difference if you are hooking it straight to the deck (which the speaker outputs are from an internal amp) or an external amp. You just connect the input wires to it and the output wires to the appropriate speaker. There are never RCA inputs or preamp inputs on a passive crossover of this type..they are all designed to go between the amp and speaker(s).Just don't exceed 40w rms..which will be a non issue if you are going straight to the deck power.Now although the wattage specs are probably for the speaker itself..crossovers can be damaged by too much power..I have blown a few myself. The specs state as little as 15watts for those.

Even without the specs for the crossover itself..it states the frequency response of the total set...so it is probably low passed around 57hz. You can not tell the high pass from those specs but it will be in the range for a tweeter.

Those "generic" crossovers you mention where probably not bandpass..the use for a passive bandpass crossover is not common enough to be on a walmart shelf....they were just a cap or coil...6db high or low pass.

have fun

DYohn 
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Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: December 02, 2006 at 11:50 AM / IP Logged  

Using a crossover not designed for a set or speakers will never result in the best sound for all the reasons Steven outlined.  NO off-the-shelf crossover will ever be optimized for a different set of speakers than the ones it was designed for.  But sure, go ahead and try them, you might be fine with the sound, and as long as the tweeter crossover is not too low you shouldn't blow your tweeters.

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