opinions on wiring tweeters differently

OW. BUT, you did come asking for advice. DYohn is right, again, and while the Dayton drivers you have choses are decent drivers, they are not really the best choice for a two-way system in a car. If you were to implement a three-way system, you could certainly improve your standing from here, CONSIDERABLY. DYohn mentions the hole in the frequency response. Again, he's right. A three-way implementation would fix that. The sensitivity differences between youe woofer and tweeter is almost 6dB, a HUGE effciency issue to overcome. The Adire 6.8 is a FANTASTIC woofer, if a bit deep. They are in my car, running 50-200Hz at 36dB on both ends, running into a 4 inch Vifa (proprietary, acquired from Harman) midrange up to 3500Hz (at 48dB on both ends), into the JL VR Evolution series silk dome tweeter at 3500 and up (at 48dB). This is all tri-amped, with signal processing, TD and crossover functions all being provided by an AltoMobile UCSPro. It takes MUCH effort to get it sounding right, as you can tell. Ouch... I also didn't know you were using electrolytics on your system... Yeah, again, DYohn hit on it. Electrolytics are VERY bad in audio circuits. They are fine for low frequency portions of crossovers, but I'd never implement them ANYPLACE they would be seeing over about 500Hz... and never EVER in high pass portions, where the audio signal passes through them; they are FAR too lossy to be used in even moderately high frequency stuff. Also, one last thing... (and this applies especially right now, until you get your driver complement decided) that positioning in that picture will ONLY serve to make your frequency response hole worse. The tweeter should never be more than one woofer diameter away from the woofer. (1/2 a woofer diameter is even better.) I would never place those two drivers that far apart in a car. In a home application, where you can be right on axis, it would pnly be SLIGHTLY better, but in the car...? Blech. Major suck-out potential.It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

what is your reasoning for building your own crossovers and such? if you are lacking the experience and electrical skills, I would much rather pay for a properly engineered crossover. You could study it and build your own eventually

I think you're interchanging the terms building and designing crossovers, but they're two different things. Like I said, the actual values for the crossover I got from someone who had designed them for himself, I just took the values and built a set of crossovers to that spec. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm good with soldering and everything involved with building the crossover, I just don't fully understand everything that goes into them, that's why I didn't try to design my own.'96 Mazda Miata

Ok, ok. So whenever I decide I want to fork over more money to do things over, how about I go with this tweeter (bigggest thing I could likely fit i nthe stock location, and goes to 2,000hz) with the afformentioned 4ohm dayton woofer. Both drivers are 4ohms, and they're within 2db of each other in efficiency. Then maybe just stick to a second or third order x-over at 2100hz so according to the published specs each driver stays 100hz within in its range. And then wire up a 2db (or would I want more since it's higher up on the door) L-pad for the tweets so each has about 91db efficiency. About the tweeter placement... Maybe it would be better closer to the woofer, but I really don't want to start hacking up the interior. I also just can't justify or bother with designing a complex three way system, it's just overkill for what I'm after. Do you guys think this site would be good for getting the specs for the x-overs and L-pad?'96 Mazda Miata

That tweeter is a much better match for the Dayton woofer. Fs of 900Hz means you could go as low as 1800 if you needed to, with 2700Hz being "ideal" (3X fs.)   I suggest a 3rd order passive at about 2KHz (2100Hz is a good target.)  Mounted high in the doors like that I'd cut the tweeter output at least -3db below the woofer, so you'd need to pad for -5db (there is also a tweeter pad calculator on the site you linked.)  The crossover calculator site gives good average values.  No calculator is ever perfect, but it's a decent place to start.  If you want to model a bit more effectively, download the Passive Crossover Designer from the FRD Consortium (You will need Microsoft Excel to use the files.)  Be sure to use at least 10-watt non-inductive resisters for your pads, and good quality polypropylene caps and air-core inductors at least 16-gauge for your crossover.  THROW AWAY your fist full of electrolytic caps (or save them for a future amplifier build!)Support the12volt.com

So... what did you end up doing?Support the12volt.com

Nothing yet. I went out of town just after I made the last post. Due to budget and time constraints I think I'm going to keep the current system until my school semester is out in early May. The current system may not be great, but it's still miles ahead of my old setup of running factory (albeit premium) speakers off of the head unit. But at least now I have a better plan for doing things, and a lot of the wiring is already in place. Melodramatic I know, but changing out the speakers is huge amounts of work. To get those woofers in place without cutting up the interior I had to put them into one of the door access holes and fish them along though the inside of the door to mount to the back of the hole where speakers would normally go. The tweets will also be pushing the limits of what will fit between the door and the panel.'96 Mazda Miata

...So taking a good hard look at what components I'll actually be buying when it comes time to change things again, would it be a bad idea to just go with a second order filter at 2100hz with those drivers? I only say this because A) It'd be cheaper to build B) It'd be much easier to fit everything into a plastic electronics box C) I'm not sure how to overcome the 270deg phase shift of a third order filter and D) In a second order the low pass only goes through one inductor, making the power lost in the crossovers less, and I'm really looking for ways to improve the efficiency of the system.'96 Mazda Miata

Not sure which drivers you ended up using... and also not sure why you think you'll need to replace the woofers in your doors.  In any case, choose a tweeter with an Fs at 1000Hz or less and you can cross at 2100 with a 2nd order filter and be relatively safe.   Be sure to reverse the polarity of the tweeter in relation to the woofer with 2nd order.  As to your other comments, the phase shift in 3rd order topologies is not generally audible.  I use 3rd order electrical all the time in hi-fi and home theater applications, and it is required for a proper D'Apollito alignment.  Also, if you use inductors with sufficient gauge, there is no significant "power loss" in the woofer filter circuit.  Fractional decibels which will not effect your overall system efficiency.Support the12volt.com