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time delay correctly applied, finally


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Steven Kephart 
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Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: February 22, 2007 at 8:55 PM / IP Logged  

Glad to hear things are working out well for you Dave.

I do have a question though, where did you get that processor?  I can't find any dealers for them anywhere.  I figure if I ever want to update my head unit, I will need a good processor as I won't be able to use the Sony unit anymore.  And I wanted one that had at least close to the same precision.  These things seem to be rather scarce now, unless you go with say a pro sound unit like the Behringer, but then you have to tweak the power supply for 12 volts.

BTW, if you ever want to compare the two, here's the software for the old Sony unit: http://www.matronics.com/XDP-4000X/dsc.zip

Steven Kephart 
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Posted: February 22, 2007 at 9:00 PM / IP Logged  
DYohn wrote:

Cool deal Dave.  Time domain issues are far more critical than distortion or maybe even FR in generating a proper sound field. 

You peaked my interest with this comment.  I remember Dan Wiggins once telling me that a flat frequency response is 90% of a good imaging soundstage.  I always thought that the time domain was one of the least important as our ears are only sensitive to it on a limited bandwidth (except for maybe the effects it has in the frequency domain).  This topic interests me and I'd love to hear your point of view.

DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: February 23, 2007 at 11:36 AM / IP Logged  
Actually I should have used "sound STAGE" rather than sound field.  Time alignment is critical to creating a proper soundstage, since the relative times the different frequency bands reach our ears is how we determine things like location, depth, size, position... all the psychoacoustic effects so well described by so many people.  Reverb, delay, reflections... all that.  Dan is right (as usual) that FR is 90% of how we qualify sounds, but TD effects can create havoc with the FR of a system in a listening space.  It is probably more critical to control reflections and have proper time alignment in a system in larger spaces like a room than in a car, but time alignment errors and reflected sounds can cause lobing, phase shifts, etc. with the attendant nulls and peaks that can make a well-designed system sound like trash.  These effects then become more important than distortion or FR to the sound the listener perceives.  time delay correctly applied, finally - Page 2 - Last Post -- posted image.
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master5 
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Posted: February 23, 2007 at 1:37 PM / IP Logged  

Correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought time delay in a vehicle to correct for listener off axis positioning would work...but only for the position it is set for.

In other words..if set for the drivers position assuming that you occasionally have a passenger(s)..or an SQ judge, wouldn't the delay effect hurt those listening positions even more? Unless of course you don't care about the imaging/staging for anyone else but yourself..lol

But anyhow I am impressed with what is being attempted. Good job and thanks for sharing the knowledge.

haemphyst 
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Joined: January 19, 2003
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Posted: February 23, 2007 at 2:11 PM / IP Logged  
master5 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought time delay in a vehicle to correct for listener off axis positioning would work...but only for the position it is set for.
No, that is absolutely correct.
master5 wrote:
In other words..if set for the drivers position assuming that you occasionally have a passenger(s)..or an SQ judge, wouldn't the delay effect hurt those listening positions even more? Unless of course you don't care about the imaging/staging for anyone else but yourself..lol
Again, absolutely correct, and... "wull, yeah..." time delay correctly applied, finally - Page 2 - Last Post -- posted image.
master5 wrote:
But anyhow I am impressed with what is being attempted. Good job and thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Thanks and if you have any other questions, ask away!
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
master5 
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Posted: February 23, 2007 at 3:49 PM / IP Logged  

Yeah..wouldn't it be better to "simply" place the drivers seat to the center of the interior???

Oh wait..thats been done...kidding aside thanks again for sharing all the "rocket science."

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