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Upgrading stereo, need some advice


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eklipz17 
Copper - Posts: 87
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 08, 2005
Posted: December 06, 2005 at 2:17 AM / IP Logged  

I just got my new headunit (p860mp) yesterday and I'm very pleased with it. I can't believe how great of an improvement it was from my old cheap low-end pioneer that i got from wal*mart. so now i'm in the process of upgrading my door speakers and possibly my rear speakers. i've been doing some research on speakers and this must be the hardest thing in car audio (from my experience) is finding certain speakers. i really want to keep my rears. I personally think it's nicer to have words coming from behind.

right now i have some cheap pioneers that came with the old hu so i'm pretty sure anything would sound 10x better than those. which of the following would be my best option?

1- replace front & rear speakers and run them off a 4-channel amp

2- replace only fronts and run them off a 2-channel amp, and keep the crap pioneers and run them off the deck
3- replace front & rears and only amp the fronts off a 2-channel and the rears off the deck.

I'm basically going for a SQL setup, but i'm slowly upgrading piece by piece every so often since I'm poor. haha. but anyways, i want something that will sound clean and crisp, and can be heard cleanly/clearly over the bass. the subs are 2 CVR's getting 787wrms off a jbl amp. plus, my rears are opened so they're noticeable inside  the trunk, instead of being closed. the bass from the trunk pushes them when they're off, and a few people told me that I need to box them so they won't be visible in the trunk. is this true? I dont wanna get some good rear speakers and you can't hear the mids or anything because of the bass from the trunk. I mainly use the rears just for the words/highs anyways. so i'm thinking keeping my pioneers and run them off a deck would be my best bet, but I want a second opinion on the pros.

After giving me my best option from above, what would be some good speakers and an amp? money isn't an issue right now, but I don't want to spend at least over $400, unless I have to. the car is a '97 saturn sc1, and both front and rears are 6.5". Also, I'm not sure what size depth it is for the doors, so I don't really want to get speakers that are too big that I have to do some custom work, because I'm not skilled when it comes to that. So would coaxils be my best route instead of components? I also noticed the CDT brand is pretty popular, as well as MB Quart, but I need some opinions from some pros on this forum.

lastly, my lights barely dim with the power I got now, if the volume is up a good bit, you can see the lights "blink" when the bass hits, but it's not noticeable, unless you really stare at it, if that makes any sense. If I had another amp for the speakers, will I have major problems? If so, can someone point me out to a good battery and alternator? I've read a couple times about people having problems with their alternator cause it wont charge unless past a certain RPM, which I don't really know what that means, but I don't want the same problem, I'm willing to spend a good amount of money for a good battery & alternator that won't let me down.

Sorry if it's so long, or hard to understand, I just need some help before I go making my own decisions.

Thanks.

menace2sobriety 
Silver - Posts: 394
Silver spacespace
Joined: October 29, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: December 06, 2005 at 3:49 AM / IP Logged  

leave the rear deck alone in fact take them out. and put all your focus on your front staging. thats where your stage is and sq comes in. i take it you want to use the factory cut outs in the door. so what you need to do is find mids with great off axis response. there are a good hand full of great mids out there some of them are even co-axil. but it,s what you  prefer co-axils or seperates. i like seperates cause i cant put the tweeter where I think sounds the best. weather it be ontop of the mid or 2 feet away. im a fan of polk. dbs for the family car and momo for my ride. but i know there is better and worse out there.. so what i would do is get the mids you want and get the amp thats match or close to the rms rating. get a four channel amp so you can power both front and rear off it. (and you dont need to use all four channels but it,s there if you need it)i personally never use deck power.  amps make a difference in sq too. and theres sound deadening to make your doors from resonating.    if you want to keep the rear speaks use some sort of baffle on the rears to keep the subs from "pushing" those. but put most youre attention up front.      but all in all i would vote for your # 1 option. if this helps. sorry for the long post.             thats all i have to say about that.Upgrading stereo, need some advice -- posted image.

sedate 
Silver - Posts: 1,173
Silver spacespace
Joined: July 03, 2004
Location: Colorado, United States
Posted: December 06, 2005 at 11:32 AM / IP Logged  
menace2sobriety wrote:
leave the rear deck alone in fact take them out. and put all your focus on your front staging. thats where your stage is and sq comes in.
Yea but he said he likes rear fill.
I'm with ya there ecklipz I abhor vehicles without rear-fill, there is *nothing* wrong with that.
My personal inclination is to tell you that your first opition sounds like it would make you the happiest.
I'm thinking that your $400 budget is going to be *more* than adequete for a good 4-channel and a round of speakers. I could pick any of a dozen different combinations for that price that would make *me* very happy anyway.
eklipz17 wrote:
plus, my rears are opened so they're noticeable inside the trunk, instead of being closed. the bass from the trunk pushes them when they're off, and a few people told me that I need to box them so they won't be visible in the trunk. is this true?
Are you saying that the rear of your rear speakers are in the same air-space as your woofer diaphrams? That isn't really a *good* thing per se, the phenomenon can cause some nasty speaker blow-back.. I used these stuffed with polyfill.
eklipz17 wrote:
I'm not sure what size depth it is for the doors, so I don't really want to get speakers that are too big that I have to do some custom work, because I'm not skilled when it comes to that. So would coaxils be my best route instead of components? I also noticed the CDT brand is pretty popular, as well as MB Quart, but I need some opinions from some pros on this forum.
I think coaxials will make you very happy. Again, I could recommend so many different ones.. Here I would probably look for a good $200 amp and a pair of $100 coaxials... I will tell ya that these are the flat-out best sounding coaxials I've ever heard.
eklipz17 wrote:
lastly, my lights barely dim with the power I got now, if the volume is up a good bit, you can see the lights "blink" when the bass hits, but it's not noticeable, unless you really stare at it, if that makes any sense. If I had another amp for the speakers, will I have major problems?
This is kinda one of those things ya have to hook-up and find out..
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
eklipz17 
Copper - Posts: 87
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 08, 2005
Posted: December 06, 2005 at 12:41 PM / IP Logged  

Thank you both for helping. Yeah I planned on deadening the doors as well as the trunk and trunk lid as soon as I get the chance. I like those Boston Acoustics link you sent, but I only saw the 6", would that still fit in the 6.5" inch hole? If they'll fit, I might go with those and a 2-channel amp, and just keep my pioneers off the deck, and get those baffel things you sent me as well for the rears.

Thanks again for the replys.

sedate 
Silver - Posts: 1,173
Silver spacespace
Joined: July 03, 2004
Location: Colorado, United States
Posted: December 06, 2005 at 7:02 PM / IP Logged  
For coaxials up front, I'd get a smallish 50x2 ... you could get away with that stuff for less than $200 if you make judicious purcchases...
I dunno man if your not gonna bother with rear-channel amplfication and what not I'd prolly go a cheaper route than the Bostons for my mains... again, you ought get that whole deal for $200 - $225 *at most* ....
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: December 06, 2005 at 7:10 PM / IP Logged  
My bias will probably show again, but here goes:  I always recommend people to go shopping and listen to speakers if at all possible before buying, and then to buy whatever you think sounds best that you can fit into your budget.  There is no such thing, in my opinion, as spending too much on speakers if you really love their sound.  And purchase locally if you can, and at the very least from an authorized dealer.  I also think the plan mentioned above to amplify the front set and run rear fill (if it's used at all) off deck power is perfectly fine.
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eklipz17 
Copper - Posts: 87
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 08, 2005
Posted: December 07, 2005 at 11:37 AM / IP Logged  

sedate wrote:
For coaxials up front, I'd get a smallish 50x2 ... you could get away with that stuff for less than $200 if you make judicious purcchases...
I dunno man if your not gonna bother with rear-channel amplfication and what not I'd prolly go a cheaper route than the Bostons for my mains... again, you ought get that whole deal for $200 - $225 *at most* ....

So are you saying if I amp my rears, I should get Boston Acoustics all the way around? If that would be the best bet, then I'll go with that. I found a set of BA on ebay new in box for like $100 including s&h, from a online store.

sedate 
Silver - Posts: 1,173
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Joined: July 03, 2004
Location: Colorado, United States
Posted: December 07, 2005 at 2:46 PM / IP Logged  
sedate wrote:
I dunno man if your not gonna bother with rear-channel amplfication and what not I'd prolly go a cheaper route than the Bostons for my mains
After considering DYohn's comments, I'd actually like to completely retract this statement. I said that more out of a sense that you were looking to do it cheaply and if *I* were to get speakers as nice as the Bostons, I'd mate 'em to a nice amp... I was more speaking out of personal system preference without any real regard to good system design..
The better, technically correct answer is:
Yes, if you only want to put effort into your front stage, by all means, concentrating there will give you better results and compromising, as I had suggested by cheaper set of speakers, really doesn't serve any purpose except saving $$$.
Now, I personnally *despise* the common technique of leaving the rears on the deck, fading forward and bridging a 4-channel or just using a 2-channel or whatever for the front stage as a strategy for running your rear-stage. I think it is haphazard and extrodinarily lame.
On the other hand, there really isn't anything technically wrong with it, and depending on the HU, it can be done quite well... with no real performance difference, (indeed some significant improvements can be had by this technique, given very specific sets of equipment) My personaly experience with it has always been quite poor, as balancing the volume knob with the rear fill and pre-amps can be hopeless for any sense of staging and ambience. Again, unless you have a quality HU, I HIGHLY recommend against it, if for no reason other than its cheap and a ghetto-rigged way to do it.. I can expand on this at length if you'd like.
I like the idea of a nice for channel mated to Boston coaxials all around. I think that'd be a *nasty* system.
Ya know, if you take $400 cash to a brick-and-mortar store, you can get a deal just as good as the the online stores... and a warranty and some actual side-by-side listening. Ebay you can pray.
Car stereo dealers are like car dealers. They *really* wanna make the sale. Lotsa competition in this market segment.   You buy a pair of coaxials and 4-channel all at once you get 30% off you run your mouth right I promise ya...
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
eklipz17 
Copper - Posts: 87
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 08, 2005
Posted: December 07, 2005 at 4:54 PM / IP Logged  

Well I would look locally but the only places around here sell low end Pioneer speakers and the crap at wal*mart which is out of the question, since I'm looking to upgrade to something better.

Truthfully I really didn't want to use any speakers on the deck, but I figured since I want more sound up front, and little in the back just to have the "extra" sound and for the people in the backseat, that option 2 would be good enough, but after thinking about it, and then reading your post, I agree having 2 sets of the same speakers for front and rear amped off a 4-channel amp would be pretty nice, and I would be very pleased with it. So, that's my plan as of now. But if I can't find 2 sets of the same Bostons, what are another "just as good" brand as those Bostons, or better? I heard some good reviews about the CDT coaxils, and by looking at your sig you own some CDT equipment. Would those be "just as good"?

If you or anyone could post some good speaker brands I can look into, as well as a link (if possible) I'd appreciate it. And some good 4-channel amps to look into, and a link as well (if possible), I'd appreciate that, too.

Thanks.

sedate 
Silver - Posts: 1,173
Silver spacespace
Joined: July 03, 2004
Location: Colorado, United States
Posted: December 07, 2005 at 10:27 PM / IP Logged  
eklipz17 wrote:
if I can't find 2 sets of the same Bostons, what are another "just as good" brand as those Bostons, or better? I heard some good reviews about the CDT coaxils, and by looking at your sig you own some CDT equipment. Would those be "just as good"?
Some CDT equipment? Haha every speaker in my car!
Uhh ... I hate to say it, but no, the CDT coaxials will NOT sound as good as the Bostons I recommended.. having had extensive time with the Classic and EuroFrame series from CDT, I can assure you that the Classic series does NOT compete with that line of Boston coaxials.
eklipz, I'm not sure if I can put into words how amazing these particular coaxials sound.. better tonality and as much detail as JL Audio VR COMPONET set that CSR, back in the day, said was SUPERIOR to a $2000 A/D/S system..... I could gush about these speakers forever. Again, a $100 Boston coaxials sounded, to me, better than 90% of the componet sets I've ever heard. Flawless coaxials, just flawless.
That, I guess, is the rub. For $100, one set of coaxials sounds just the same as the rest. Not these Boston's. Like nuggets of gold in my roomates' dog's morning suprise, you certainly won't be expecting the sound coming out of 'em...
Whew golly can they *sing*!
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
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