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Push Button Start


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KPierson 
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Posted: May 30, 2007 at 10:38 PM / IP Logged  

I have an installer friend who has contacted me and asked that I design a push button start system for a customers 2007 Mitshubishi Eclipse.

I won't be doing the installation, just (possibly) providing the part.  The owner plans to physically remove the mechanical wheel lock (assuming one is present) and is going to use the push button start exclusively to start the vehicle (no key at all will be needed).

The installers idea was to use the OEM keyfob to trigger a 3 minute window that would allow the car to start.when the button was pushed.  This would retain some security, as you would need the OEM keyfob, but at the same time would leave the car useless if the keyfob died, was lost, or destroyed, so not a very practical option.

So, the next option would be to use the 'unlock' actuator signal.  This would trigger the window any time the doors were unlocked (remotely or with the interior switch).  This, to me, creates quite a security risk, as anyone could drive away with the car at pretty much any given time.  If he installs an aftermarket alarm with a starter kill the starter kill could add a layer of protection, but I'm not sure if that is in his plans.

The installer also mentioned using a 'ghost switch' to add a bit more security. 

From a design stand point, I don't want to provide something that isn't secure.  Anyone have any other ideas of how to make a full function push button start secure?

Thank you,

Kevin Pierson
dualsport 
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Posted: May 31, 2007 at 7:04 AM / IP Logged  
Suppose you allow him to use the OEM keyfob to trigger the 3 minute window, and add an additional trigger for the window using a keypad circuit (either prebuilt or one based on the LS7220 keypad controller IC).
Normal operation would use the OEM keyfob, but if it's lost or fails, he could use the backup trigger of the keypad, placed in the glovebox or some such. Cutting or shorting the wires going to the keypad would disable the system, so it should be secure.
Could also wire in a logic gate circuit to require some combination of multiple switch positions that would be difficult for someone else to chance upon, like a bank of toggle switches, with a combinational binary code to trigger the window. Less secure having fewer combinations, but throw a hidden switch or two and chain it with another requirement like the unlock actuator, and it could make it harder to bypass. Of course, that makes it harder to remember and probably defeats the purpose of push button start convenience.
Ween 
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Posted: May 31, 2007 at 10:25 AM / IP Logged  

hi

here's a piece http://bulletproofelectronics.com/arseHOME.htm.... looks a bit pricey, but does appear to have ample security provided.

shouldn't need too many modifications to convert to automotive use.

just a thought

mark

peterubers 
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Posted: May 31, 2007 at 11:20 AM / IP Logged  

Interesting...

The way the Honda S2000 did it for a while (don't know if it still works like this) was you had to insert your key into the center console and just rotate it clockwise to a set position and then you could press your push button to start the car up.  I believe the immobilizer was linked to this center console key barrel to provide the antitheft component.

Could you rig something like that?  Could you rig somethere where the immobilizer system detected the actual key (with transponder chip) in a plastic dish somewhere in the center console --> this would then activate the immobilizer to deactivate and allow the car to start.

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KPierson 
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Posted: May 31, 2007 at 12:13 PM / IP Logged  

Thank you all for the ideas so far, some really cool stuff that I have never seen has been mentioned.

Keep the ideas coming!

Kevin Pierson
peterubers 
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Posted: May 31, 2007 at 3:44 PM / IP Logged  
How do the new nissans work in terms of their push button starts?  Does the keyfob stay in your pocket and a weak radio signal submits a code to a receiver in the dash, deactivating the immobilizer?
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KPierson 
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Posted: May 31, 2007 at 5:09 PM / IP Logged  

The Nissans have several recievers placed throughout the car to actually detect key position (sensors in each door, and in the trunk and I believe one n the middle of the car).

Depending on where the car calculates the actual key to be the push button start will work. 

Kevin Pierson
peterubers 
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Posted: May 31, 2007 at 6:57 PM / IP Logged  
Are there any aftermarket products similar to this?  I'm sure DEI could jump on this item and mass produce it for an add-on for after market alarm systems.
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dualsport 
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Posted: May 31, 2007 at 8:20 PM / IP Logged  
Is the goal of the pushbutton start supposed to be convenience or primarily a "lookit this!" feature? If the idea is to not need a key at all, then a remote would still be needed as a minimum to unlock the doors. And if you can't get in it, you can't drive it-
That setup for a bike is nifty in concept, but I sure wouldn't feel too comfortable leaving my bike without the steering locked. It would prevent a drive off theft, but roll away theft is another matter.
KPierson 
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Posted: May 31, 2007 at 9:10 PM / IP Logged  

I'm guessing its both - convenience and 'cool' factor.

The problem I have with simplifying it is if someone knows about the system (word of mouth or whatever) I would hate for someone to smash his window and drive off.

I need to get a hold of the guy and see exactly what the guy has in mind.

Kevin Pierson
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