611t to control relay

Greetings, First post, long time lurker... We have a home power system. We are making 12V (for now, going to be 24 soon but with a 12V stepdown unit) from a small water turbine on our creek. I also drive a long haul transport so I have played with lots of 12V stuff over the years. I'm not a noob when it comes to relays but I thought it would be wise to get advise before I let the blue smoke out! I have a few new 611T latching relay/timers. They will be used to control 3 circuits around the house. One of these circuits is for security lights. They are 27W LED spot and flood lights normally used for work lights on a rig. I'm going to be using 8 of them on the one circuit for a total of 216W or 18A. I'm thinking this might be a bit much of a load for the 611T's, so I want to use the 611T to control a Bosch relay. This should be pretty straight forward but it would be nice to get some input form the gurus on here... Any thoughts?

I know nothing of the DEI-611T other than its MOSFET output (ie, not relay contacts). I couldn't find any current rating for it, nor wiring recommendations. Though I expect it to be protected, unless others say otherwise, I'd fit a spike quenching diode across your relay coils - eg, 1N4004 or 1N4007; line end to +12V (#86), other end to GND (#85). Though the 611T should be capable of driving several relays, maybe having it drive one diode protected relay to drive the others is simpler? Or 2 such relays to split the loads (in case of a "master" relay failure)? Otherwise it's just the usual principle, relays can be used to drive (energise) other relays. You may be keen to minimise current consumption though usually relay coil currents are negligible to their loads (typical automotive relays rarely take more than 250mA; fyi - it's V/R = 12V divided by the coil resistance). IMO it's good to hear of your generating set up. I might inquire separately about that (maybe even before the next millennium!) - eg, using an MPPT or is power output sufficient?   

Thanks for the reply oldspark. Yeah, there's not much on the interwebs about these 611T's. That's one of the reasons for this thread. A diode is definitely a good plan. I'm using 100K resistors on the control circuits just to be safe too. Good idea about doubling up on the relays, at least for the flood/spot light circuit. Lots to consider here. I built a separate control panel for all of these goodies, and it actually is fairly neat, which is a huge accomplishment for me! As for the home power system, ask away, I love to share my experiences with it! And no, we don't use solar so there's no need for MPPT. We are strictly low power hydro, 12V now and this summer we're switching to 24V. As of right now, we're generating 40A continuous, running into 4 6V Rolls Surrette batteries at 450AH each, then inverting to 120AC for the main household loads.

Thanks for the info. Nearly 500W output - that's pretty good, and I presume reasonably reliable. Alas few here have that luxury - either droughts dry up the supply, else floods wash all away! Nevertheless, the Snowy Mountains Hydro Scheme was one of Australia's largest ever projects and I think it supplies 4GW (now under 5% of total generation). What I like is its quick start-up time (90 seconds compared to hours for thermal) and that overnight - when electricity is in oversupply - they pump the water back up for later reuse. Tasmania's grid is all Hydro (AFAIK).    And of course hydro is a true solar system. It's just a pity it often has environmental issues, especially dams. I know MPPT is a solar panel thing, but IMO it has other applications. It would be real handy for my old Ducati with its 120W permanent-magnet alternator - under ~2,000 to ~3000 RPM its voltage is insufficient for charging (ie, under the >13V required). I could switch its "center-tapped" stator to a single winding to double the voltage at half the current, but these days I'd use a dc-dc converter. However many generators (hydro, wind) have regulators to provide a constant voltage output and MPPTs aren't applicable. Alas the need for batteries is the big hassle and cost for these installations. Several $thousand worth are required even for the smallest domestic installation.   I recall dimensioning a $20-$30k battery ~30 years ago for a friend that was looking at alternatives to paying $40k for a grid connection. But what people come up with and install impresses me, especially the DIYers. (Man, the cost of commercial installations! But for example to rewire a discarded Fisher&Paykel 36 or 42 etc pole washing machine permanent-magnet motor as a 200-300W generator - that's about a $300 saving. I have 2 F&P motors for a rainy day.) And I reckon I know what you mean with your "fairly neat" control panel. It'd be a HUGE accomplishment for me too! Very rare, but somewhat satisfying.) As to the 611T, maybe others can chime in with its load ratings. Alas, I'm a DIYer so I reject such devices (lol). However, seeing so much from the gurus here - like HowieII recently mentioning the 528t, and for the price, to have such configurable relays... Cheers.

i believe the 611T has a 7.5A fuse on the switching leads (brown and yellow)

oldspark wrote: Thanks for the info. Nearly 500W output - that's pretty good, and I presume reasonably reliable. Alas few here have that luxury - either droughts dry up the supply, else floods wash all away! Nevertheless, the Snowy Mountains Hydro Scheme was one of Australia's largest ever projects and I think it supplies 4GW (now under 5% of total generation). What I like is its quick start-up time (90 seconds compared to hours for thermal) and that overnight - when electricity is in oversupply - they pump the water back up for later reuse. Tasmania's grid is all Hydro (AFAIK).    And of course hydro is a true solar system. It's just a pity it often has environmental issues, especially dams. I know MPPT is a solar panel thing, but IMO it has other applications. It would be real handy for my old Ducati with its 120W permanent-magnet alternator - under ~2,000 to ~3000 RPM its voltage is insufficient for charging (ie, under the >13V required). I could switch its "center-tapped" stator to a single winding to double the voltage at half the current, but these days I'd use a dc-dc converter. However many generators (hydro, wind) have regulators to provide a constant voltage output and MPPTs aren't applicable. Alas the need for batteries is the big hassle and cost for these installations. Several $thousand worth are required even for the smallest domestic installation.   I recall dimensioning a $20-$30k battery ~30 years ago for a friend that was looking at alternatives to paying $40k for a grid connection. But what people come up with and install impresses me, especially the DIYers. (Man, the cost of commercial installations! But for example to rewire a discarded Fisher&Paykel 36 or 42 etc pole washing machine permanent-magnet motor as a 200-300W generator - that's about a $300 saving. I have 2 F&P motors for a rainy day.) And I reckon I know what you mean with your "fairly neat" control panel. It'd be a HUGE accomplishment for me too! Very rare, but somewhat satisfying.) As to the 611T, maybe others can chime in with its load ratings. Alas, I'm a DIYer so I reject such devices (lol). However, seeing so much from the gurus here - like HowieII recently mentioning the 528t, and for the price, to have such configurable relays... Cheers.

Actually, since we're usually charging at 13.6 to 14.2, we're eeking out between 500 and 550 watts. More than enough when you consider that the inverter can handle a 6000WAC start up load. But it wasn't always thus... It is rather a huge advantage to live on the side of a huge mountain in the wilds of BC... I started with a bunch of junk scrounged from the local dump. A 5 ft diameter wire spool, an mountain bike frame and an old Delco alternator was our power system for a couple of years and it worked great. But, these things weren't meant to run 24/7 and the thing started to be a maintenance nightmare. I'd leave on a run, be gone for a week or two, just to come home, kiss the wife and head straight down to the cold creek to fix something or other on the monster, as my wife called it. It became obvious that it was a losing battle and when it just about took my arm off, that was the end of it. We bought a beautiful little rig called a Stream Engine. It wasn't cheap but it has been running without stopping, except for basic maintenance and to rebuild my intake, for almost 4 years now. I kept the monster as a museum piece, haha... And batteries... oh yeah... I have too much experience with them, haha. We bought the fancy ones and are diligent to equalize them, check water and electrolyte levels. At $750 a pop, we don't want to be replacing them any time soon. The alternative is a pure AC system but now that get's pricey fast! Since we're 25 KM's from the last power pole, we'll be enjoying our system for a long time to come. Plus, I love the education I've acquired from just doing it. I like to say I learned electricity from the creek on up! And, I agree with you about taking the jammy way out with these 611T's. I am a DIY'er almost all the way, haha... But they just seemed to fit the bill and the timer feature is going to be handy. There comes a point when electricity becomes electronics... not an easy transition for a gearhead like me! I have built my own CCTV system from used stuff on fleabay, etc. The latest challenge, and the main reason for the 611T's, is to be able to toggle lights and an alarm through my DVR via my phone. And son of a gun if I didn't get it to work! only 3 switching circuits, but hey, I can be in a snowstorm in Saskatchewan, tap on my screen, (ok, after I pulled in to a rest area) and viola, there's my house, yard, shop and gates. I can turn the floods on at night and get a good look that way too. And, if someone is stupid enough to try and wander up here, my motion detectors start the recording, snaps a picture, dials my number and sends me an email! How cool is that? Haha, told you I like to talk about my set up... And to Ween, thanks eh! Yeah, there's a 7.5A inline fuse for the power line and a 3A on the switch line. Now, where are those guru's with all the answers?

Ripper info! Their installation pdf etc says nothing. But if on the brown or yellow wires, they are definitely the "contact" wires - ie, the load; it does not include the 611T circuit supply - hence suggesting the 611T's max current rating. I'd hope that to be a conservative fuse rating. It may be a 10A or 100A rated MOSFET but its fuse should guarantees the fuse blows before any short or inductive load etc kills the FET. Nevertheless, assuming 250mA relay coils - I'd reckon 20 relays (5A) to be quite okay okay as a load. That assumes internal spike protection. The 611T's spike protection will not the normal reverse-polarity 1N4004 etc diode since the BROWN / yellow output can be of either polarity. Maybe they use Zener diodes or MOVs etc. [They could use normal diodes to each 611T rail (+12V & GND), but that means coupling to or non-independence of the output load's supply.] Modern MOSFETs usually incorporate their own spike protection, but will that handle multiple relays? A ROT (rule of thumb) I read for relay coil spike diodes is that the diode should be rated at (at least) twice the coil current. (Hence 250mA => a 500mA diode, hence 1N400x 1A diodes are fine.) So, worry about relays? At ~$22 per 611T it may not be worth worrying about...   But maybe an 1N400x or 1N540x across the 611T's output? Or an 1N400x across each relay coil? Or truly take the load & risk off the 611T - have it switch a "master" 1N400x protected relay that in turn switches the other non-protected relays. That has one advantage - add a series blocking diode and you can add other diode-connected controllers - eg, a manual switch to turn on loads irrespective of the 611T. (I like manual bypasses!) I wonder if the 611T can be dismantled to get to a blown MOSFET, or even convert to a relay output. 100A rated MOSFETs are often cheaper than relays (~$3). Just a thought in case of failure. Besides, the real treasure in the 611T is its logic circuitry (input & delay combinations). Of course, a $4 8-pin PICAXE 08 and a MOSFET can do all the above and more! (Yeah, like my F&P motors, I might finally program a PICAXE 08 circuit on day...) Alas more ramble, but maybe adding consideration for a "master relay" with simple addition of other switches or controls. (It's a simple concept - merely insert diodes to isolate each input to prevent backfeeding into other inputs. Diodes are a one way valve for electricity. The current flows in the direction of the diode symbol's arrowhead and hence out the symbol's perpendicular line end which is the same line as on a real diode's body.) And yet again, Masters like Ween come in with the experience and detail that I lack.

I missed your last reply zapstrap. (Slow typing again?) So my suspicions were right - you're a creek-up DIYer. Yippee yay! And to have such knowledge - eg, equalisation, pure sine-wave inverters, etc. And the brilliance of a vehicle's alternator, but also learning its long-term issues. And a steam engine - don't you need electricity to boil a jug of water for those? Just kidding, but isn't modern technology marvelous?! I guess they adapted a car engine for that one. (FYI - a recent building facade restoration:- The cranes got the late C19th facade down, but couldn't get it up again. How the heck was it down over 100 years ago? Steam cranes - max torque at zero displacement. Newtech isn't always superior!) Yeah, electricity -> electronics. Yet it's just the same - a bit at a time. (Good pun "a bit" - the basic unit in digital computers ha ha.) You know diodes - a one way electronic valve. Next comes the transistor - an extra wire than controls the diode - a bit like a coil on a relay - but it can turn it from fully off to fully on with all partial conduction levels in between. Hence a transistor can be like a relay - ie, a "digital amplifier" meaning small current in, large current out and either on or off. But it is also an analog amplifier - it amplifies those tiny vinyl record vibrations and mp3 decoder outputs into loud speaker sound. FETs & MOSFETs are the same, but they use voltage (instead of current) to control them. Oh - and their output contacts are more like a relay's - ie, a bi-directional resistance rather than one-directional transistor output. And there you have it, a complete overview of electronics. Add in resistors and capacitors, and the occasional inductor (coil) and connect the lot in certain combinations and you have every electronic device and computer known to woman, and man. Ok, I skipped a few adjuncts like SCRs, MOVs, sensors etc and how to keep smoke contained within those components while still giving a good sound and true-sine power output, but hey - that is merely detail. Just more bits of info, but soon you'll taking info in bytes & words rather than bits. At least this time I can blame a lengthy telcon for my delayed submission. As to those guru's with all the answers, yeah, I too like redundancy. PS - that's redundancy as in spare, fail-over, backup etc. Despite other puns herein, any other interpretation is probably inappropriate.)

You sir, are a gem. You've a lot of wisdom as well as knowledge and I can't tell you how much I appreciate your replies. Now, as for the StReam Engine... as in , crick, brook, runnel... haha, you're not the first one to miss that, and it is a clever play on words. The little unit is 1ft by 1ft by 10in tall and can make 12V, 24V, 48V, or 120 or 240AC! All in one little miniature turbine. An amazing little piece of Canadian engineering. (I do have some pictures of it but this forum is pretty restrictive for noobs, so I don't know if I can post pictures or not. Figured I'd ask first anyway...? Heck, I even have a video clip of the monster in action!) Now, as for the electronic Bits & Bytes, I am slowly learning, letting the blue smoke out now and then (but how did they get it in there in the first place) and figuring out how to direct those little protons and neurons. I have a lot to learn. And you are so right, all of these devices have been around for a long time now, just re-arranged and re-packaged and re-sold Anyway, you've definitely given me some things to research tomorrow...Thanks eh...

Oh yeah, that stReam engine was clever. It's obvious I saw the R... But what a great name! Alas I may lack a few neurons, but that doesn't effect my positive outlook. And one day I'll let you in on the secret of blue smoke - after I find out myself. (I still don't know how I manage to keep it in so often, it's not like I'm colorblind or anything...) And yeah, no pics until 10 posts or 50 posts or something, text links can be posted. If it's only 10 posts, it may be worth waiting, but I suspect you'll take forever to get to 50 unless you reply to others. (I hope we see more "alternative" stuff on here.) But thanks for the thanks, and your enthusiasm. Like I said, it's great to see such innovation. Best wishes. PS - I just looked up the stream engine and downloaded a few pdfs. It's not cheap, but it is certainly a nice unit. Some countries do have clever people. (Yeah, they get slower here closer to the equator too! ) And as a reliable energy source as opposed to wind or solar... It even has a manual MPPT!