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How to Test Fuel Injector Frequency?


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pts760 
Copper - Posts: 403
Copper spacespace
Joined: December 11, 2009
Location: United States
Posted: October 26, 2011 at 4:14 PM / IP Logged  
Does anyone know how to test the AC frequency of a fuel injector/coil pack. I talked to the Crimestopper tech support and they told me that the RS-4G3 reads a tach signal anywhere from 200Hz-10,000Hz. I forgot to ask the tech how to test for the frequency. I know I need my meter set to Hz. Do I place my red lead on the non-common wire at the injector/coil and my black lead to ground or do I put my red lead to the non-common wire at the injector/coil and my black lead to the common wire at the injector/coil?
I drink current, eat ohms, and bleed voltage
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
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Posted: October 26, 2011 at 4:28 PM / IP Logged  
Not that I have any idea why the injector freq would be relevant, but black to GND is correct though it shouldn't matter.
Make sure your meter can handle the voltages involved - ie, at least 16V but with spikes of up to maybe 200V.
Or up to 80,000V is testing ignition coil outputs.
You'd be better testing frequency at the ECU output anyhow - and the IgCoil output if you want to know RPM (since injector pulses per RPM can vary).
i am an idiot 
Platinum - Posts: 13,670
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: September 21, 2006
Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: October 26, 2011 at 9:44 PM / IP Logged  

You can read the voltage on it with your meter.  Some meters will read it on AC volts, and others read it with the DC volt setting.  The voltage will increase as you rev the engine.  It will read correctly on one or the other settings.

howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
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Posted: October 26, 2011 at 11:58 PM / IP Logged  
And if it's tach you're looking for; look at the camshaft position sensor, 3 wires, 12v+ ignition, ground and tach normally located at one end of the cylinder head, back of rev. counter or one of the pins on the engine management, or on some Toyota/Lexus and BMW, on the diagnostic (OBD) socket, pin 9.
KPierson 
Platinum - Posts: 3,527
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Posted: October 27, 2011 at 11:07 AM / IP Logged  
I've never heard of a fuel injector firing multiple times per revolution in a non standard pattern. I realize in a batch configuration there will be a wasted injection, but the overall signal will be consistent across the RPM band. I've heard of fuel injection systems that fire the coil an extra time during ignition at low RPM to burn extra exhaust gases, but never an extra fuel injection.
You have to be careful with cam and crank signals as they are typically "keyed" for synchronizing. Depending on how the unit reads tach signals you could be injecting noise in to the system whenever the "key" passes by. I had an aftermarket flywheel in my G35 and my OEM ECU had no issues with the reluctor wheel on it, however my aftermarket ECU showed constant RPM "jumps". Eventually I removed the aftermarket flywheel and noticed that the teeth in the reluctor wheel were not perfectly distributed. The OEM ECU could filter this and work fine, the aftermarket ECU didn't filter it which led to problems!
To answer the original question put your meter on DC, select Hz, put your red on the signal wire (typically non common)and your black at ground. Some meters won't read DC Hz so if you don't get a reading set the meter to AC and select Hz. Some meters only have a Hz selection and selecting AC or DC isn't required. Just to be clear, the signal driving the fuel injectors is a pulsing 12vdc signal.
Kevin Pierson
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
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Posted: October 27, 2011 at 11:21 AM / IP Logged  
Quite right Kevin, but we are looking for a tach signal I think, the original poster never specified, I take your points about noise, I've seen it supposedly causing problems with VW Golf/Jetta MklV and GM Vauxhall Astra (same system by Bosch), in that case use the DEI 454t (I think that's the number) inductive I believe and non-intrusive of the vehicle's systems.
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
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Posted: October 27, 2011 at 4:44 PM / IP Logged  
KPierson wrote:
I've never heard of a fuel injector firing multiple times per revolution in a non standard pattern.
Alas there are several.
Some systems fire (inject) at fixed intervals until started. (If I recall, Delco 808 etc at ~12ms.)
And whilst injects per cycle vary - eg, every stroke for batch fired 4 cyl or once per cycle (2 RPM) for sequential 4 strokes etc - some vary depending on load or RPM - eg, from once per cycle to twice for heavy loads.
Whilst the fixed-period injection only effects start-up (and could be interpreted as ~41 or ~333 RPM in an 8 cyl), many vehicles may well have stable injections per cycle. But I found most people had troubles enough figuring whether batch fire, wasted, sequential etc - not to mention pulsed signals (within each "open" period) - so injectors were not the desired method of detecting RPM. (Nor was the IgCoil spark signal for multi-fire CDI etc systems, though ECU or distributor output was ok.)
Mind you, I abandoned EFI system years ago out of boredom, and too much wasted time with so called formerspurts - I don't even know which vehicle OEMs use ionic sensing etc.
But as noted, the OP has not provided a reason for wanting injector frequency. If it is to check the things I have mentioned, then no problem. If it is for a tacho function, I suggest another source.
And yes, injectors are 0V (GND) switching, but being a solenoid they can give a kick. Hence like a 12V relay etc, the meter may see a much higher spike voltage (usually a negative spike...)
pts760 
Copper - Posts: 403
Copper spacespace
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Location: United States
Posted: January 12, 2012 at 11:15 AM / IP Logged  
The reason that I want to know how to test for the frequency for a tach signal at the injector/coil is because that's what the engineer at Crimestopper told me that the unit will accept as a reliable signal. I usually put my meter on AC voltage and put the red lead on the signal wire and my black lead to ground and watch the AC voltage fluctuate with the vehicle's RPM's. I'm a little unfamiliar with testing for the tach signal by reading the frequency with my meter. I thought it was a little odd that he suggested that I test for the frequency of the tach signal and this is why I wanted to know the proper procedure to do so.
I drink current, eat ohms, and bleed voltage
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: January 12, 2012 at 11:42 AM / IP Logged  
That is all rather anal, any of the above test methods as recommended by the "other" R/S manufacturers.
What vehicle? Let's clear this up once and for all.
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: January 12, 2012 at 11:52 PM / IP Logged  
Did Crimestopper also mention how to set the number of injection pulses?
If it's not mentioned in the manual (as an alternative to spark), then I would discount it. (Unless you know what sort of injection cycle or behavior your vehicle has.)
I expected they'd use the ignition signal to the ignitor (from the ECU)
or IgCoil or some EFI timing inducer.
And it saves having to buy a frequency meter (DMM with frequency).
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