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Amps keep shutting off


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specialblendj 
Copper - Posts: 118
Copper spacespace
Joined: September 03, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: October 25, 2003 at 11:14 PM / IP Logged  
I have Alpine F540 and an M420 amp.  or something like that.  One amp is powering two infinity 10's and the other is powering 4 infinity 6 1/2's.  My amps keep on shutting off every once in a while and then turning back on.  When the turn off the little light on the front turns red.  The are each wired and grounded with 8 gauge power cable and the are each grounded to the metal floor of the trunk in different places.  The amps usually turn off for about a minute or two and then come back on.  Does anyone know whats wrong?
DYohn 
Moderator - Posts: 10,741
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: October 26, 2003 at 9:24 AM / IP Logged  

Does it happen randomly, like when you hit a bump, or after they have been playing a while and you can almost set your watch by it?  Do both amps turn off at the same time every time?  Do they both come back on by themselves or do you have to cycle the power?

If it happens randomly, you may have something as simple as a loose ground connection.  If it is after operation, it is probably heat-related and the amps are going into protection.  This is what the red light means.  Maybe  your gains are too high or your speaker impedence load too low.  If both amps go off at the same time every time, it may be related to a bad power or ground, or to problems in your head unit or RCAs.

Lots to check out.  Can you give us some more info about the problem?

specialblendj 
Copper - Posts: 118
Copper spacespace
Joined: September 03, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: October 27, 2003 at 8:48 AM / IP Logged  
OK this is actually my friends amp, so I'm not a hundred percent sure about all the connections but I'm sure I would of noticed a loose connection to the amp.  I haven't checked his wiring to the subs, but each amp turns off at different times.  I witnessed the problem when I was setting his gain for him.  The gain was not up too hight, probably at about 75% at the most, but I was tuning them, so I was turning them back and forth.  At this time the system had not been in use for several hours, atleast 5 hours.  I only had the system running for a few minutes at about 75% volume from the deck when the problem started occuring.  I think the 4 channel amp was the first to shut off.  Then after that is was back in forth, on and off.  The amps never shut off at the same time, however their down time did overlap sometimes.  He is running one 4 gauge cable from the battery, and it is split into two 8 gauge cables via a distribution block near the amps.  I know the ground wire is not loose with the sub amp, but im not sure about the 4-channel.  I did notice that they were grounded  in seperate locations in the trunk, each grounded to the trunk floor about 2 feet away from each other.  Also I should probably note that all of the equipment in this system is brand new, and was all purchased at the same time, from the same shop. (not an online dealer)  It was all installed at once also, by someone who seems to know what he is doing. 
DYohn 
Moderator - Posts: 10,741
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: October 27, 2003 at 9:12 AM / IP Logged  

So the problem did not start until you started adjusting the gains?  Sounds like you have the gains too high.  If the system was installed properly to begin with, why did you feel the gains needed adjustment?

Remember, gains (AKA input level controls) are NOT volume controls, they are input sensitivity adjustments.  They need to match the voltage input coming to the amps.  Set them too "high" and you will exoperience clipping.  WAY too high and you may experience such severe clipping that it can destroy your speakers (not too likely in subs, but much more likely in the full-ranges) and you may be "bottoming out" the speakers (driving the voice coils against the mechanical stops.)  This can cause amps to shut down in protection mode due to over current draw, and can fry a voice coil if the power rating is too close to the max the amp can put out.  You say the gains were set to 75% when you began?  This is very high indeed, and you must be sending them a low voltage signal.

For example, y head unit puts out 7 volts in the pre-outs, which means the gains on my amps are set to near minimum and they are still capable of 100% power output....

I suggest turning the gains DOWN and then re-set them properly.  See if the problem goes away with the gains set correctly.  If you don't understand the proper method for setting gains, let us know or do a search as there are several methods and many suggestions in this forum.

specialblendj 
Copper - Posts: 118
Copper spacespace
Joined: September 03, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: October 28, 2003 at 11:00 PM / IP Logged  
I must of said something wrong, because this problem did not start when I tried tuning the amp.  This problem started when the system was first installed.  The system was never tuned, that is why I was tuning it.  It wasnt installed at a shop, but by a friend who has worked at one.  Also the problem is not occuring from clipping of sending too much power thus overdriving the amp, speakers, or subs.  The gain was never set at a level which produces distortion exept for a second while tuning.  The problem was not happening at low volumes, but when it did occur the volume was turned up pretty high.  Not to the point where clipping occured though.  He said that his headlights dim a little, so could this problem be due to lack of power?  It's a '91 accord. 
superstreet786 
Silver - Posts: 339
Silver spacespace
Joined: August 12, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: October 29, 2003 at 12:10 AM / IP Logged  
they are most likely overheating
DYohn 
Moderator - Posts: 10,741
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: October 29, 2003 at 7:36 AM / IP Logged  

Assuming you think you have the gains set properly, first determine if your amps are defective.

Disconnect all speakers and power on the system.   Turn up the volume on the head unti to the point where the amps normally shut down.  Watch them and see if they go into protection.  If so, your problem is either defective amps, a defective head unit or a corrupt signal between the head unit and the amps.

If the amps just sit there and all is well, turn the system off and re-connect the speakers one at a time.  Turn the system up and wait to see if the amp shuts down.  When it does, you either have a bad amp or a bad speaker or a bad connection to that speaker.  If no ONE speaker can cause the problem, but if you connect more than one ind it happens, you have an incorrect speaker wiring problem causing too low an impedence.

Go slowly and be methodical and don't try to rush.  Troubleshoot the system until you have things narrowed down.

I still think that since BOTH your amps are going into protection, you either have a horribly low impedence load on them or you are over-driving them with either too hot an input or too high gain settings.  They are shuuting down in protection from excessive heat.

fuseblower 
Silver - Posts: 403
Silver spacespace
Joined: June 25, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: October 29, 2003 at 7:43 AM / IP Logged  

It is hard to say what could be causing the amps to shut-down.  Start by checking the wiring and the fuses.  A lose fuse could cause one amp to go out and when it attempts to come back on the instant current draw would cause the other amp to shut down due to lack of power causing one or both amps to shut down simataneously or at the same time.  If the amps are confined to an area where there is a lack of airflow the amps could also be overheating which would cause them to shut down.

If all of the wiring checks out there could be a bad set of speakers somewhere.  But since both amps are cutting off it sounds like your friend has a wiring issue some where.  Check the radio wiring it could be a lose wire somewhere.


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