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unsolvable alternator whine


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410440 
Copper - Posts: 82
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 10, 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: February 26, 2008 at 10:07 PM / IP Logged  

I am having an issue with alternator whine, i cant seem to solve the problem, but here is the backstory and my problem:

I have RF component speakers all the way around, RF 250.2 sub amp, 2x P2 subs. RF 450-4 Speaker amp, Alpine CDA-9886 HU

now up untill a few days ago i was running a kenwood kvt-717 HU which died on me, so i went with the Alpine, which of course meant i had to redo my wiring as everything doesnt need to run to a processor unit anymore, so i took the time to run my 4 gauge power and remote wires down the drivers side, and all of my speaker lines and RCA's down the passenger side, i have an ipod cable running through the center console.

I have upgraded engine to chassis ground, battery ground main is 4 gauge with another 8 gauge to chassis, alternator ground is stock but looks to be quite large. 4 gauge wire is run from battery to trunk (distro block) which then splits off (2) more 4gauge wires to cap (then to sub amp) and to 4ch amp.

Each amp / cap are seperate grounds to the same spot on the chassis (all 4 gauge)

Deck ground has been upgraded to 12 gauge wire today (which reduced whine, but not elimanated)

I have tried to ground out the RCA shield but it just makes the noise amplified both at the amp and at the HU.

As stated above, my old HU didnt have any noise at all, and after spending all afternoon re-doing all my wiring and trouble shooting, im still at a loss.

The only thing i can think of now is a bad cap or alternator, but the alternator has no signs.

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can offer,

Matt

Matthew Robertson
Senior Installer
Best Buy Deerfoot Meadows
Calgary, AB, Canada
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: February 26, 2008 at 11:18 PM / IP Logged  
First thing is to simplify the system.  Remove the unnecessary components to see if you can isolate the issue.  Start with the cap and iPod cable.
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i am an idiot 
Platinum - Posts: 13,667
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: September 21, 2006
Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: February 27, 2008 at 2:05 AM / IP Logged  
Have you tried turning the gains down on the amps till the noise goes away?
haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,054
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Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: February 27, 2008 at 7:36 AM / IP Logged  
Have you tried a ground loop isolator, just as an experiment? If the noise goes away with it in place, then you have ground potential differences.
Otherwise, both DYohn and i am made good suggestions.
I suppose it IS possible, that with the HU rewire, you knocked some ground loose behind the dash. It can happen...
Also, how LOUD is the noise? Is it like really big icepicks in your ears, or is it just noticeable?
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Steven Kephart 
Platinum - Posts: 1,737
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Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: February 27, 2008 at 10:10 AM / IP Logged  

Just keep in mind that turning the gains down or using isolators isn't a cure for the problem, just a band-aid.  If one of those causes the noise to go away, don't stop there as there shouldn't be any noise in the system at all.  Those steps are there just to get an idea of what is causing the noise.

Try making shorted plugs (old RCA's with wires shorted together), remove all the RCA's from the amps and plug in the shorted plugs into the amplifiers.  If the noise goes away then you know the noise isn't caused by the amps or further down the line.  Next drape new RCA's through the vehicle (not under carpet) and plug them into the head unit and amp.  Try this for all channels.  If the noise goes away then you know the issue is with the RCA's either being pinched, screwed through, or just a bad set.  Next move the head unit out of the dash to see if the noise is being induced into it.  And finally try isolating the power to the head unit.  First I usually power the head unit directly to the battery (both power and ground).  Next I will use a power supply to power the head unit.  In the latter case if tne noise goes away then you know the noise is caused by a noisy electrical system due to a bad alternator or other device. 

410440 
Copper - Posts: 82
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 10, 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: February 27, 2008 at 11:12 AM / IP Logged  

Update:

There is only alternator whine when the heater blower motor is on, when the blower is off, it is silent.

??

Matthew Robertson
Senior Installer
Best Buy Deerfoot Meadows
Calgary, AB, Canada
haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,054
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: February 27, 2008 at 1:23 PM / IP Logged  
That sounds like radiated noise, to me... I expect that it is being induced in the head unit.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
410440 
Copper - Posts: 82
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 10, 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: February 27, 2008 at 2:29 PM / IP Logged  

I have the headunit chassis ground to car chassis, as well as headunit harness ground to same chassis spot ground.

I was on the phone today with the alpine rep, and he absolutely 100% said that alpine headunits dont have noise (bs or no?) he said it was probably my amps, but i never had a problem with the old HU installed. (on another note, i tried switching out headunits to an alpine cda-9884 and the noise was worse.)

Matthew Robertson
Senior Installer
Best Buy Deerfoot Meadows
Calgary, AB, Canada
sparkie 
Platinum - Posts: 2,061
Platinum spacespace
Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: February 27, 2008 at 3:00 PM / IP Logged  
Are your RCA cables anywhere near the blower motor or related wiring to it? Try the suggestion that Steven suggested. Run some different RCA cables outside the car just temporarily to see if the noise goes away. If it does, reroute and or replace the RCA cables. You could also check the blower motor ground to make sure it is good.
sparky
DYohn 
Moderator - Posts: 10,741
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: February 27, 2008 at 3:24 PM / IP Logged  
Also the installation could have knocked a ground lead off the blower motor.
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