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brettfields 
Member - Posts: 16
Member spacespace
Joined: September 12, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: July 04, 2008 at 2:38 PM / IP Logged  
ok guys i have a question for ya, need a little advise. i built a box a couple years back for 3 10in kicker l5s, i did the math today using winisd to see what i tuned it at and it was tuned way high, like the 52hz range. i used to like it but i am now more into rock and its just not there with this box. im guessing i forgot to take the Ft3 off of the box size. dont really know what happened. i was going to try to retune the same box but i dont think i can get it tuned down that far, and dont mind rebuilding anyways.
first question, what is a good number to stay below on port noise.
second, when staying within a certain box size what is the easiest way to figure box size and port without having to go back and forth a 100 times changing everything.
i want to be finish hight 14.75 width 44.75 and the depth can change a lot, right now i am 20in but could go 30 if needed.
anyone know how far the specs of l5s and l7s are, i want to build for l7s cause im gonna upgrade soon. what are the l5s gonna sound like in the same box?
thanks for all the help guys
aznboi3644 
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Joined: May 01, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: July 04, 2008 at 4:56 PM / IP Logged  
safe rule for port size is 12-16 square inches of port per cubic ft
stevdart 
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Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: July 05, 2008 at 9:10 AM / IP Logged  

brettfields wrote:
second, when staying within a certain box size what is the easiest way to figure box size and port without having to go back and forth a 100 times changing everything.

You shouldn't have to rework the figures 100 times.  Just 40 - 50 times should be sufficient. 

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: July 05, 2008 at 10:23 AM / IP Logged  
stevdart wrote:
brettfields wrote:
second, when staying within a certain box size what is the easiest way to figure box size and port without having to go back and forth a 100 times changing everything.

You shouldn't have to rework the figures 100 times.  Just 40 - 50 times should be sufficient. 

Yep!  That's why you model in software before you cut wood.  Making 40 or 50 or 500 changes in software is as easy as a click of the mouse.  Experimenting and discovering is part of the fun! 

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brettfields 
Member - Posts: 16
Member spacespace
Joined: September 12, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: July 05, 2008 at 12:51 PM / IP Logged  
i don't mind the software part, its all the math back and forth on port size minus from the box then the port needing to be longer so taking out more, back and forth. was just hoping you guys had a smarter way than me.
what do you guys recommend to tune to,
also read 110 fps was the number to try to stay under for port velocity, if i push this to the limit like 110 will it be heard in an suv
thanks again guys for the help. ill try to get my tinkering down to 40-50
Ravendarat 
Platinum - Posts: 2,806
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Joined: February 23, 2004
Location: Canada
Posted: July 05, 2008 at 1:19 PM / IP Logged  
For the record if I am doing a box built more towards sound quality I am usually tunning to around 32-33 hz
double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
DYohn 
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Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: July 05, 2008 at 2:00 PM / IP Logged  

brettfields wrote:
i don't mind the software part, its all the math back and forth on port size minus from the box then the port needing to be longer so taking out more, back and forth. was just hoping you guys had a smarter way than me.
what do you guys recommend to tune to,
also read 110 fps was the number to try to stay under for port velocity, if i push this to the limit like 110 will it be heard in an suv
thanks again guys for the help. ill try to get my tinkering down to 40-50

10% the speed of sound or 110 fps is pretty high, but usually acceptable in car audio subwoofers.  I suggest it's too high if the port is in your listening space (like in an SUV)  and I suggest you design for a max velocity of 5% of the speed of sound, or about 55 fps.  As far as what size and shape to use for the port, that is completely dependent on the size of the enclosure and the amount of power used.  Post those if you can.

Also, Raven's suggested tuning is good for car audio.  What is the fs of your drivers?

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stevdart 
Platinum - Posts: 5,816
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Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: July 05, 2008 at 4:26 PM / IP Logged  

wrote:
i don't mind the software part, its all the math back and forth on port size minus from the box then the port needing to be longer so taking out more, back and forth. was just hoping you guys had a smarter way than me.

My answer was tongue-in-cheek, of course, but you ask a very good question.  It is a major stumbling block.

The dilemna we're referring to is about the need to change the net cubic feet of the enclosure when the volume of the port changes.  For each tweak on either side, a corresponding change in the other side of the equation creates the need to affirm the design all over again in order to maintain the same tuning frequency (with further fiddling and tweaking of tuning freq applied along the way, as well!).  We could almost say that the tweaking could go on infinitely.

A method of making this easier (and of paramount importance, which you are doing) is to use software to work the design.

  • Open up several instances of the woofer in the program, all at the same time.  Use topologies that differ from one another:  a couple of rectangle ports, some different sizes of round ports, big differences in net cubic feet....
  • Use the port air speed chart to weed out port openings that appear to be too small.
  • Have a few good calculators open to work with while you are working with the box building program.  One is the simple calculator that comes with every PC.  I often have up to five or more instances of just that calculator open at various times.

Continue the process of elimination until you weed the field down to the best one or two designs.  At that point you should be able to fine tune the airspaces with just a few tweaks.

Here are some links to save:

http://www.madisound.com/services/hifispeakerdesign.php

http://www./help2/Articles.cfm?id=31

http://www.ajdesigner.com/phpsubwoofervented/efficiency_bandwidth_product_equation.php

http://www.1728.com/pythgorn.htm (for angled box building)

http://www.mhsoft.nl/spk_calc.asp#top

http://www.joshmadison.com/software

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

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