amps, which would you recommend?

I agree with the JL Audio or Alpine recommendation.  I am currently testing a Pioneer Premier PRS series amp that uses ICEpower technology (same basic Class-D technology as the Alpine PDX series.)  Although I am quite impressed by it - and I usually do not like Pioneer products - the Alpine implementation sounds better.Support the12volt.com

DYohn wrote: I agree with the JL Audio or Alpine recommendation.  I am currently testing a Pioneer Premier PRS series amp that uses ICEpower technology (same basic Class-D technology as the Alpine PDX series.)  Although I am quite impressed by it - and I usually do not like Pioneer products - the Alpine implementation sounds better.

David,

Are you allowed to share your test data on those amps?  I'm still curious how well these small ICE amplifiers maintain their rated power over time. 

megaman wrote: do not... repeat NOT, buy the TMA amp.  I sell them, hook them up all day long, and I'm currently looking for a new "entry" level line of amplifiers.  I have been deeply disappointed by the TMA line from JL Audio.  BTW, they are NOT designed by JL Audio, but by a couple of past Rockford employees, (who were not even amp technicians so I have no idea their qualifications for designing their own amps).  They are sold under the JL umbrella, and after talking to my old rep who was employed by JL Audio as a rep, and was recently replaced by an independant rep firm, he gave me the inside scoop on the TMA line. Bottom line, go with the 500/1 and in light of my testing the PDX amps from Alpine, I am impressed with them.  If your price point was a bit higher I'd say go with the JL HD amps, which completely blew me away with their performance.

We sell quite a few of the TMA amplifiers and have never had any problems.  They seem to be a great bang-for-the-buck amp line.  However I do agree that the 500/1 is a better option.  It's much more versatile and has much better protection circuitry.

Steven Kephart wrote: David, Are you allowed to share your test data on those amps?  I'm still curious how well these small ICE amplifiers maintain their rated power over time.

One anomaly I discovered with the Pioneer is it gets a little flaky at max rated power maintaining the current through it's rated impedance.  Meaning, at the rated load of 2-ohms, it starts to have trouble maintaining full rated output and suts down for unkown reasons.  I hear some of the Alpines do that too but I didn't see that behavior.  Give it three ohms or more and it's fine and stable all day long.  In fact, into a 4-ohm resistive load I see about 115% rated power output and almost ruler flat FR with a pink noise signal.  Pretty good.  It does get hot, though.

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Steven Kephart wrote: We sell quite a few of the TMA amplifiers and have never had any problems.  They seem to be a great bang-for-the-buck amp line.  However I do agree that the 500/1 is a better option.  It's much more versatile and has much better protection circuitry.

The TMA mono blocks have been fine for us, however, they sound terrible compared to a Slash, G series, or A series of old.  They take forever to start up and we just aren't  happy with the overall performance.  They are cheap.  Watt for dollar we can't beat em'.  Taking a step back we haven't had any problems with the mono blocks at all, and we've installed a lot of them.  However, we are getting our @#$ handed to us by the other "cheap" mono blocks by Orion Cobalt, JBL CS series and Alpine MRP amps. 

The 4-channel TMA's we've had nothing but trouble with them.  Yesterday I went through three, THREE in a row!  All of them had something bad, right out of the box.  Two of them as soon as you touched the crossover switches, or controls, the speakers started popping and smacking.  The third amp had horrendous engine noise in it.  We finally put in a G4500 and it worked flawless.  I didn't change out wiring or reroute anything, and no engine noise, whisper quiet.  So that's why we are ditching the TMA's.  Underpowered, unproven, and let's face it... who has EVER heard of TMA?

Steven Kephart wrote: DYohn wrote: I agree with the JL Audio or Alpine recommendation.  I am currently testing a Pioneer Premier PRS series amp that uses ICEpower technology (same basic Class-D technology as the Alpine PDX series.)  Although I am quite impressed by it - and I usually do not like Pioneer products - the Alpine implementation sounds better. David, Are you allowed to share your test data on those amps?  I'm still curious how well these small ICE amplifiers maintain their rated power over time.

Dude... You TOTALLY asked me the same question when I got my PDX amps, and I flaked! LOL All I can say is that with the devices I have to measure current, voltage, and frequency response, I was very impressed with the total package of the PDX amplifiers. If memory serves me correctly, there was little to NO sag in output power on the 1.1000, (I was (and still am) running 4 ohms, though), and I noticed about a 5% drop in output power on the 4.150 while running in bridged mode (4 ohm load). Hardly worth mentioning. I am still impressed every time I sit in my car, the power just keeps coming... Smooth delivery, lots of reserve (I did plan it that way...) I have never really noticed anything in the way of "strain". The power supply is very well designed, and seems to be very tightly regulated. Overall, they will do all that they say they do! The rumors of the 1.1000 running hot are not rumors at all, that thing does get warm. Dissipating over 200 watts of power from a flat aluminum heatsink that is only about 60 square inches... Sure, it's gonna get hot! I keep telling everybody that there has never been an issue though, I've never had it shut down on me, even this summer, where we had over a week of 110 degree days, one of them hit 116!It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

haemphyst wrote: Dude... You TOTALLY asked me the same question when I got my PDX amps, and I flaked! LOL All I can say is that with the devices I have to measure current, voltage, and frequency response, I was very impressed with the total package of the PDX amplifiers. If memory serves me correctly, there was little to NO sag in output power on the 1.1000, (I was (and still am) running 4 ohms, though), and I noticed about a 5% drop in output power on the 4.150 while running in bridged mode (4 ohm load). Hardly worth mentioning. I am still impressed every time I sit in my car, the power just keeps coming... Smooth delivery, lots of reserve (I did plan it that way...) I have never really noticed anything in the way of "strain". The power supply is very well designed, and seems to be very tightly regulated.

Thanks for the answer Dave's. That's good to know. I do understand that even a little bit of sag isn't a big deal. 200 watts of sag on a kilowatt amplifier is still inaudible. Seeing such high power ratings in such a small package had me a little skeptical on whether they would deliver and I'm glad to hear that they do.

haemphyst wrote: Overall, they will do all that they say they do! The rumors of the 1.1000 running hot are not rumors at all, that thing does get warm. Dissipating over 200 watts of power from a flat aluminum heatsink that is only about 60 square inches... Sure, it's gonna get hot! I keep telling everybody that there has never been an issue though, I've never had it shut down on me, even this summer, where we had over a week of 110 degree days, one of them hit 116!

Bakersfield is definitely a good place to test that. Of course an old man like you probably doesn't run that amp near clipping very often. [enter raspberry smilie]

Steven Kephart wrote: Of course an old man like you probably doesn't run that amp near clipping very often. [enter raspberry smilie]

Sure, you're RIGHT, but ow. Very ow. LOLIt all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

haemphyst wrote: Steven Kephart wrote: Of course an old man like you probably doesn't run that amp near clipping very often. [enter raspberry smilie] Sure, you're RIGHT, but ow. Very ow. LOL

I hope you know I was teasing. If you were insulted then I do apologize as it wasn't intended.

haemphyst wrote: Steven Kephart wrote: Of course an old man like you probably doesn't run that amp near clipping very often. [enter raspberry smilie] Sure, you're RIGHT, but ow. Very ow. LOL

No kidding, that was harsh, haha. But thanks guys, I called the shop I was getting the stealth box for, and he said he can get the PDX-1.600M amp for $40 over the cost of ebay, and I gave him the greenlight to order it. Hopefully both the box and amp will arrive on time around Weds/Thurs, and my sound system will finally have the missing piece: Sweet, sweet bass. I appreciate all your input and suggestions. I went from a Alpine MRP-M500/SWR 1242 Alpine Type R (500$ set up) to a JL Stealthbox/PDX-1.600M combo ($1150) All in the name of trunk space... haha. It's going to hurt, but at least the bass will drown out my pain.