remote start keeps grinding or shuts off

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howie ll

Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466

Joined: January 09, 2007

Location: United Kingdom

Posted: January 22, 2009 at 12:57 PM / IP Logged

MAC do a tester which has pos and neg inputs via croc clips, a probe and a red and gren LED as the display. Probing a pos source will light the red, neg the green. Pr4obing the half wave tach source will keep one on constant, the other will flicker. I have been using one for years to find tach and it has never failed me.

KPierson

Platinum - Posts: 3,527

This member consistently provides reliable information

Joined: April 14, 2005

Location: Ohio, United States

Posted: January 22, 2009 at 1:03 PM / IP Logged

If the wires are connected to the coil then they arn't fuel injectors. Coils are associated with spark plugs and use a variety of different methods to control them.

Fuel injectors, for the most part, are simple on/off devices that pulse one time per two complete crank revolutions (in a 4 stroke motor).

Kevin Pierson

pgkool

Member - Posts: 13

Joined: June 22, 2006

Posted: January 22, 2009 at 8:10 PM / IP Logged

KPierson

Ok I will look again for the fuel injector wire...in the mean time I took snapshots of the two places I am taping the tach signal from...

howie II

I looked at the balck/grey dot wire on the OBD connector with my scope and did not see a tach signal. I will look for the RED / black under the hood next.

Below are my scope images of idle engine, tach wire.

It seems that the starter keeps turning untill it reaches this rest/idle point. I tried to set the tach so that it uses a higher frequency point by keepin my foot pressed on the gas at a constant freq, but then the car would never stay on. It would shut off and try agian.

Wire off ECM, 13Hz

remote start keeps grinding or shuts off - Page 2 -- posted image.

Wire off grey connector, 11.5Hz

pgkool

Member - Posts: 13

Joined: June 22, 2006

Posted: January 22, 2009 at 8:11 PM / IP Logged

<a href='http://www.mediafire.com/?imdw3t2minz'>http://www.mediafire.com/?imdw3t2minz</a>

pgkool

Member - Posts: 13

Joined: June 22, 2006

Posted: January 22, 2009 at 8:13 PM / IP Logged

Sorry thoes images didnt work, here is there links, disreagard the above post

Wire off ECM, 13Hz

http://www.mediafire.com/file/imdw3t2minz/ECM_tach,13Hz.JPG

Wire off grey connector, 11.5Hz

http://www.mediafire.com/file/yg0qqzf4mjw/Engine_tach,11'5Hz.JPG

KPierson

Platinum - Posts: 3,527

Joined: April 14, 2005

Location: Ohio, United States

Posted: January 23, 2009 at 6:30 AM / IP Logged

You don't want a HIGHER frequency, you need a LOWER frequency.

Like I said a while ago - when the starter continues to crank what happens if you blip the throttle? You never answered that question.

Another thing to try is to wait until the car is warm and the idle RPMs drop - then reprogram the tach signal.

As long as the 11.5hz or 13hz signal has enough voltage potential for the remote start to distinguish between ON and OFF they "should" work. That is roughly the frequency of a pulse every other crank revolution.

Kevin Pierson

pgkool

Member - Posts: 13

Joined: June 22, 2006

Posted: January 26, 2009 at 9:49 AM / IP Logged

KPierson

Thankyou for your help, and sorry for taking up to much of your time.

I still dont see where you aked me to "blip" the throttle, but sorry for dodgeing that Q. I finally found a fuel injector, and fallowed the wire back to the ECM and taped it from there.

VOLLA! the f'n peice works! Perfectly! I scoped that signal, and it was about 6V AC pk-pk. I dont know why the other signals didnt work but thats all behind me now.

As to lower frequency, the car starts and the rpm is at about 1200 and then idles to about 900. This is why I though if I could get a higher frequency correlating to 1200, it would stop trying to crank earlier and not wait for it to reach idle. What am i thinking wrong here, out of curriosity?

howie II

Thankyou for your help, the BLACK/ grey dot wire was not a tach signal on the OBD connector and i could not find the BLACK/ red wire in the engine compartment you spoke of. Thankyou for your efforts tho.

FOR REFRENCE...

the wires i used were located on the ECM on the plug at the very bottom behind the glovebox. There is a black wire with the tach signal that was too week. Off the fuel injectors, I saw that each injector had a BLACK/ red wire and then the 4 cylinders(V4) each had unique color. I am assuming the BLACK/ red was ground. The 4 other wires were BLUE,RED,WHITE,YELLOW. I just found this combination on the ECM plugs, and the were a lower gauge then the other wire and all right next to each other. They were on the same plug I tapped the black tach wire off of. This was for a 2000 Toyota Camry V4.

KPierson

Platinum - Posts: 3,527

Joined: April 14, 2005

Location: Ohio, United States

Posted: January 26, 2009 at 10:00 AM / IP Logged

When I say "blip" the throttle I meant just tap it and rev the car to 2500-3000 rpm and see if the higher rpm shut the crank output off.

A starter cranks a car at around 250 RPM, so once the motor has reached at least 900 rpm it can be deduced that the motor is running on its own. So, you want to program the tach to the lowest possible RPM that the car will run at at idle. It sounds like the car was starting but the tach frequency was programmed TOO HIGH and the motor wasn't consistenly hitting that RPM so the starter kept cranking. So, to fix this you would want to program the tach LOWER. One way to test and verify this is to "blip" the throttle when the starter is staying engaged and see if the higher RPM shut the crank output off.

The fuel injector should be 0-12vdc. The BLACK/ red wire should actually be fused 12vdc and the four different color wires should be (-) outputs from the ECU.

Kevin Pierson

flybyu

Member - Posts: 35

Joined: April 27, 2004

Location: Illinois, United States

Posted: March 08, 2009 at 12:48 PM / IP Logged

Maybe you guys could help me with the problem i'm having. I had some custom units made for me. The problem is first time it starts it runs fine, if we flood the engine and kill it and when it tries to do a restart it will run for 10 seconds and shutoff and not try to restart. We had them do custom hz for the tach signal. they are 10hz and 30hz.. Somehow could it be shutting down due to the lower frequency being to high on a restart. Were using an injector as a tach signal.

loneranger

Copper - Posts: 572

Joined: December 28, 2008

Posted: March 08, 2009 at 3:47 PM / IP Logged

flybyu wrote:

I had some custom units made for me.

It maybe impossible to diagnose, without a design and wiring schematic.

flybyu wrote:

it will run for 10 seconds and shutoff and not try to restart.

Does the vehicle rev high, while in this scenario? Depending if/on how over-rev protection was designed in, that may be a cause.
Does the igntion stay active, while in this scenario? If so, the tach source may not be recognized properly.

Honestly, I'm shooting in the breeze, without a known platform.

Ideal - cmon dude, add to topics in a useful manner, not stuff that is obvious.

Story - Phzzzt! Hey, what happened?! ... Isn't it obvious?

Moral - Never dismiss the obvious.

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remote start keeps grinding or shuts off

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