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1994 Chevy C1500 Truck Brake Light Mystery


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antonia 
Member - Posts: 16
Member spacespace
Joined: April 16, 2009
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: April 16, 2009 at 1:09 PM / IP Logged  
Omron 12077867 Z7365
Parts counter at dealer has no record for a 'brake light relay'. Can't tell me if the brakes even use on. Neither could the service dept.
He said that number crosses to a blower relay. Online I discovered a cross ref to a 'backup light relay' listed as an AR173 Echlin. No pic or pinout so I couldn't confirm.   I crawled under the transmission and and there are only two switches on the housing. I unplugged them both to see if the backup switch (this is manual transmission) was at fault. It did nothing. Brake lights stayed on. I exposed the bulbset on the assembly and discovered that the lit filament is the lower of two on the middle bulb (of three bulbs).   I can't seem to confirm in any manuals or datasheets what this filament is dedicated to. I put the bulb assembly in view of the rear view mirror, started the truck, and put trans in reverse. No other filaments lit. I'll have to wait an hour until I can plug in the relay again, and try to observe which filaments light when I use brakes and backup lights.
antonia 
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Joined: April 16, 2009
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: April 16, 2009 at 1:14 PM / IP Logged  
Just to recap the main points..   If the truck has been sitting still for an hour or so, I can plug in the relay and all seems fine. About twenty minutes later, engine on or not, the relay will start to buzz/chatter, and then about five to ten minutes after that, it will fully close and keep the taillights burning. The lit filament is the middle bulb, lower filament (closer to the base).   If I unplug the relay, the filament goes out. If I plug the relay back in immediately, the filament goes on. All of this is completely, so far, independant of the brake switch and backup light switch.   If I wait about an hour, I can plug the relay in again and the brake switch controls the filament/s for about twenty minutes. Then the relay starts to buzz/chatter and then locks on.
ckeeler 
Gold - Posts: 1,461
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Joined: June 20, 2008
Location: New Mexico, United States
Posted: April 16, 2009 at 2:35 PM / IP Logged  

does the relay look like this? and what were the final results you found with your meter?

1994 Chevy C1500 Truck Brake Light Mystery - Page 2 -- posted image.

howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
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Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: April 16, 2009 at 4:54 PM / IP Logged  
Relay for the brake lights? Doesn't sound right, please check ALL your fuses.   Had the brake lights come on with the ignition on a new Astra recently, it was a missing fuse.
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
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Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: April 16, 2009 at 4:57 PM / IP Logged  
Sorry I was rambling a bit before but surely that relay has to be wired as ground to 85 brake light switch (at pedal) to 86, power in to 30 aqnd 87 out to lights, surely it only activates when brakes are pressed, therefore we've either got a faulty switch at the pedal did you not disconect the pedal switch at any time to eliminate the pedal switch or the relay is faulty so it's worth trying another.
antonia 
Member - Posts: 16
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Joined: April 16, 2009
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: April 16, 2009 at 6:01 PM / IP Logged  

I did disconnect the brake switch at the pedal. It made no difference.

No person, at Chevy parts counter, or at service dept, nor at two aftermarket autoparts stores, was able to tell me what this relay is dedicated to.

I pulled fuses one at a time while the tail lights were stuck on.   All the likely candidates did nothing.  So I went at them one at a time.   I got to the CTSY light and bingo.   I'll assume that CTSY means courtesy, or dome,  light.     Now the dome light never did work on this truck.  In fact, ironically, it was the only light that would not work when I bought it.    I stopped at autovalue on the way home from buying the truck and got a bulb, but to no avial.    But ALL the other lights worked properly.  

Today, when I discovered that the CTSY fuse opened the troubled circuit, I began to really wonder.  The door switch for this light is missing on the driver's side.   There are a couple of small plugs near this point (in the vicinity of the parking brake) that are dangling unconnected to anything.    I'm next going to get a switch to replace the missing one and connect it, although logically I cannot imagine why a missing switch should gum up the works.    A switch is open normally.  If it's missing/disconnected the system just thinks it's open... no?   Why the heck to engineers do this crap?    Someone told me that on some of these Chevys there is a separate fuse for 'courtesy' and for 'dome'.    If one or the other is circuit is not complete, it keeps the other one from working.   

I have a Puch moped at home.    I was online getting info on it one evening and someone on a forum was having a hard time starting the bike.    Another member told her to make sure the bulb was good in the taillight.  They explained that on some s the ignition would not function without a complete circuit through the taillight.   No,  this is not a safety feature.   It's a PITA gremlin that the engineers just let pass.   And this from a MOPED!     This isn't computer or microcomputer stuff folks.  Why does it have to have been made so complicated?   

The guy at Autovalue tonight, after poking around with a meter for 15 minutes (extremely kind of him) advised me that if all else fails, I ought to work around this relay entirely and hard wire the brake lights myself.   I'm afraid that this is just asking for more trouble.   I'd next find my headlights screwing up, and my turn signals, etc.    

Can't I just enjoy a basic chevy with manual transmission and roll up windows?    I was so happy last week. 

antonia 
Member - Posts: 16
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Joined: April 16, 2009
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: April 16, 2009 at 6:03 PM / IP Logged  

ckeeler, that's not the relay.    Mine has four spades in  square arrangement.\

I'll post a pic if neccessary.

ckeeler 
Gold - Posts: 1,461
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Joined: June 20, 2008
Location: New Mexico, United States
Posted: April 16, 2009 at 8:12 PM / IP Logged  
sounds non factory added in to me if thats the case. if it was mine id rip it out and go straight from the brakelight switch to the lights, after all thats how its supposed to be wired from the factory.
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: April 17, 2009 at 7:43 AM / IP Logged  
As I said before, even with hi-level brakes, your only pulling 5-7amps, why would you need a relay?  It's far too early for silly late model electrics. Incidentally re your Moped, the Germans made wonderful, advanced tanks in WWll lucky for us they had design faults just like your Moped!
antonia 
Member - Posts: 16
Member spacespace
Joined: April 16, 2009
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: April 17, 2009 at 3:50 PM / IP Logged  
howie, indeed why would you need a relay? Why is this relay interfering with my brake lights?   Does this truck use a relay for the brakes? The dealer is unable to say yes or no!   I'm just gobsmacked and beside myself that information about this truck is so hard to come by. It's not a Maserati. It's one of the best selling vehicles of all time!
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