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need advice on high output alternator


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bradinar 
Member - Posts: 33
Member spacespace
Joined: April 26, 2009
Location: Arkansas, United States
Posted: June 03, 2009 at 9:55 AM / IP Logged  

Hello everyone, 

I am looking at purchasing a H.O. alternator within the next few weeks.  My car is a 2001 chevy malibu with a 3.1L V6.  I was looking at one from knukonceptz.com.  I have a couple of questions about it.

1.  They don't have my specific car listed but they have an alternator for other GM cars with the same 3.1L.  I am correct in assuming this would fit my car as well? 

2.  It is a 160amp output.  I have a JL 1000/1 and a 300/4.  Would this be big enough for my current needs with these amps?

3.  This alternator is $225.  Is that a fair price?

4.  When upgrading my big three do I need to use 1/0 g or can I get by with 4 g?

any help is greatly appreciated.

wolfox 
Member - Posts: 49
Member spacespace
Joined: June 16, 2009
Location: Florida, United States
Posted: June 16, 2009 at 9:04 PM / IP Logged  
That *sounds* like it may be a re-wrapped CS130D alternator to get that sort of power and still be under the hood on that V6 Malibu. Trouble with re-wrapped alts is that they tend to not generate high enough internal voltages to keep amp output up there when needed at idle with heavy accessory loads. They usually will not tend to hit max output until they hover around 2000 RPM at their rotor shafts.
Will it do what you need? Certainly. Will you be happy? More than likely. But let me seed your mind with doubt and see if I can light your amateur garage tech enthusiasm a little bit. :D
I'll be gentle...
For about $250, you may be able to find a rebuilt-to-new and beefed up stock GM AC-Delco alternator to fit your application that will more than meet your needs. Look into whether or not your current alt harness is compatible with a GM/AC-Delco AD244. (Adelphi Units are Decotrons too and are totally 100% swap for parts-n-all compatible)
They will hammer out a steady 100 amps for the asking AT IDLE when HOT, and do it all day long without trouble. All alternators work much less efficiently when hot, this one's just tougher and better at it's job. A junkyard pull from a GMC Yukon, a wrecked 2006 Trailblazer, or Escalade w/V-8 will snare you one that should be factory stamped for 145 Amps. The AD 244's are *underrated* and often a unit sold even stamped for 130 Amp service will still offer up 140 easily. Going the junkyard route will get you the alternator for $25 or so, and then all you will need to do is find a slightly larger serpentine belt. (By about one inch) Doing your big three upgrade with this beast in place with 2 ga. battery cables picked up new and off the shelf will more than compliment this upgrade and your audio setup as proposed.
The AD244 can be rebuilt in a garage in an afternoon with a handful of parts off E-bay to make a whalloping 170+ amps with heavier GM issue rectifiers, regulator and stator coil swap. Rebuilds with double wrapped rotor coils and further upgrades will generate upwards of 300+ amps in the same large body alternator case and still be tough as nails reliable as the original factory built Delcotron/Adelphi unit.
The real rub will be if your alternator harness will be plug-in compatible. If you had some sort of late model CS130D "crossover" make of an alternator in there with a rounded, 4-wire harness plug, the AD244 replacement will be a drop in upgrade. Given the year of vintage on your car, I would almost be sure to say that this is an 85% bet in your favor. The larger case on the alt can be happily mounted with just the two bracket holes on front. The smaller case units had a third hole to bolt them up on the rear of the case that is still present on the large case swap out - but too large to fit the original bracket. Do not worry - the two front ones will be more than solid enough to work reliably.
About the only other concern is to see of there will be other harnesses, mechanical bits and hoses that may be in the way. The bolt holes are 6.5" center to center which makes them fit about nearly all GM applications and some Dodge without a problem. But the AD244 is thicker and deeper in it's build by a fair amount and you need to double check the fit before you permanently bolt it all together.
At worse, pick one up at any automotive parts place with a bullet proof return/refund policy and check it out - then hit the junkyard to find your generator gem. :D The physically larger diameter on the case will push it out from the bracket a little more than the stock CS/AD series alternator, needing the trial and error with several belts to get it done right. Generally though, the stock belt for your year/make +1 inch will more than suffice and be safe.
I am doing this upgrade myself soon to a '95 4.3 liter Vortec Blazer once I source my AD244 from a scrap yard and pick up the GM "Heavy Duty" rebuild kit. (For solid 200 amps at idle) :D Be mindful that there were two different types of harnesses that were used on these alternators depending on the year that they were produced. Some have just two blades in a socket for the harness, plus the +BATT post on the rear. THIS ONE WILL NOT and CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK IN OUR APPLICATION. If either your car or the alt you pick up has a square plug in harness adapter with 4 conductors, one of them being fatter than the other; a simple harness conversion can be done with a pigtail replacement available over the counter at nearly all parts shops.
Good Luck!(tm)
Life is too short to build slow computers or weak audio!
tommy... 
Gold - Posts: 1,901
Gold spacespace
Joined: December 10, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: June 16, 2009 at 9:24 PM / IP Logged  
That was very interesting...Thanks for the info...Dont know if it will help but check out Ohio Generators...
M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!
wolfox 
Member - Posts: 49
Member spacespace
Joined: June 16, 2009
Location: Florida, United States
Posted: June 17, 2009 at 12:01 AM / IP Logged  
Try to get a read through this. There are links too that will help you get charts and cross-references to aid you in the search and what to say to parts dealers. I got a lot of info from here and following other searched links via Google. Typically however, if it fits in one GM, no matter the stripe, it will fit in others with minimal mods. Some folks even go so far as putting in more current capacity in Mini-Coopers, all types of Japanese makes and Chrysler Jeeps. The latter, need a lot of current to keep lights, fans and other accessories running when they are idling and crawling through rocks.
S-10 Forums : High Output Alternator Mod
Life is too short to build slow computers or weak audio!
krazekilla224 
Member - Posts: 16
Member spacespace
Joined: June 17, 2009
Location: Michigan, United States
Posted: June 17, 2009 at 1:21 AM / IP Logged  
I find this really interesting seeing as how I was actually just looking for one for my car which is the exact same year and engine as yours. I found a 200 amp one brand new with warranty for $217 shipped. http:////MALIBU-3.1L-HIGH-OUTPUT-200-AMP-ALTERNATOR-99-00-01_W0QQitemZ390057481582QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxq20090606?IMSfp=TL090606133002r38096
-Chris-
haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,054
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: June 17, 2009 at 7:12 AM / IP Logged  
krazekilla224 wrote:
I find this really interesting seeing as how I was actually just looking for one for my car which is the exact same year and engine as yours. I found a 200 amp one brand new with warranty for $217 shipped. http:////MALIBU-3.1L-HIGH-OUTPUT-200-AMP-ALTERNATOR-99-00-01_W0QQitemZ390057481582QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxq20090606?IMSfp=TL090606133002r38096
ANOTHER non-rule-reading noob...
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
krazekilla224 
Member - Posts: 16
Member spacespace
Joined: June 17, 2009
Location: Michigan, United States
Posted: June 17, 2009 at 11:09 AM / IP Logged  
Yup you got that right! Basically just search 2001 Malibu 200 amp alternator on google and you will find it..
-Chris-
bradinar 
Member - Posts: 33
Member spacespace
Joined: April 26, 2009
Location: Arkansas, United States
Posted: June 17, 2009 at 11:47 AM / IP Logged  

Thank you for your repilies everyone.  I was starting to worry no one was going to answer. 

Wolfox:  I like your idea about the AD244.  I knew that GM had pretty h.o. alts in there trucks and SUV but I didn't think that they would bolt up to car engines so easily.  After my original post I actually found a 200 amp alt on with 100 amps at 1000 rpm but I think that is a beefed up cs130.  After reading through the post on the s 10 forums i tend to agree with you and others on that board that it would get heat soaked and output would drop considerably. 

The good news is that I am pretty sure that my car has the rounded 4 pin harness.  Even better news is I have found a 145amp AD244 on ebay.  It says Delphi on the casing.  This is a OEM unit right? The unit is less than 100 bucks shipped.  Would this be enough for my setup without beefing it up?  I don't really plan on any other upgrades that would draw more power.

wolfox 
Member - Posts: 49
Member spacespace
Joined: June 16, 2009
Location: Florida, United States
Posted: June 18, 2009 at 1:25 PM / IP Logged  
That would be the beast you are looking for. For a little more coin, hunt around on Ebay and other sites to pick up the $70 or so kit to build her up to 170 amp heavy duty service. Even if you do not rebuild it on your bench, keep the kit around for and if the alt weakens or fails. At worse a good rebuild shop locally can perform the swap out of parts and rebuild it for you on the cheap. Luckily, rebuilding these devices are pretty easy to do with a reasonably well appointed toolbox in an afternoon and you get to learn something along the way. :D
Life is too short to build slow computers or weak audio!
bradinar 
Member - Posts: 33
Member spacespace
Joined: April 26, 2009
Location: Arkansas, United States
Posted: June 18, 2009 at 4:02 PM / IP Logged  
Wolfox, I think i have hit a snag in my plans.  After closely looking at the casings on these I've noticed that my factory alternator has one mounting hole that faces the pulley on the front and the other two face down toward the ground.  The ad 244 looks like it has two bolt holes on the front.  Are you aware of a workaround for this or any versions of the ad 244 with this style mounting?
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