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raise your hand if you like dodge wiring


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nfrank89 
Copper - Posts: 86
Copper spacespace
Joined: April 30, 2009
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: September 02, 2009 at 2:01 AM / IP Logged  
hahaha im kidding of course...
can someone please explain to me why chrystler chose to wire vehicles using resistance? it makes it almost impossible to diagnose some problems. disconnect this wire.. the headlights turn on... wth? plug this one in... the power locks stop working and the domelight goes off... WHY WOULD THEY DO THIS?!
tommy... 
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Posted: September 02, 2009 at 9:23 AM / IP Logged  
Excellence in engineering...And w/ multiplexing...It saved them 300 lbs of wiring harness's...!
M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!
KPierson 
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Posted: September 02, 2009 at 10:32 AM / IP Logged  

Resistance (when used correctly) can change voltage.  Voltage can be precisely monitored to allow more then one function to be transmitted on a line.

I believe it was BMW that first started using multiplexing in vehicles, but in the end it saves a lot of weight and cost.  If you are having issues with simple multiplex systems stay away from CAN and LIN busses!

Kevin Pierson
nfrank89 
Copper - Posts: 86
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Location: Washington, United States
Posted: September 03, 2009 at 5:08 AM / IP Logged  
okay, that makes sense. yeah i realised they saved a lot of wire this way. it's smart and interesting but it's also very hard to diagnose problems. i was working on a 2002 ram and the problem was the lights for the gear position and the odometer stayed on at all times. how would one go about diagnosing this problem? also, at what point did they start using this system? is it used on all vehicles after a perticular year?
Velocity Motors 
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Posted: September 03, 2009 at 12:23 PM / IP Logged  
Every model starting at different yers with the multiplex. It started in the mid 90's with the higher end vehicles having the resistance based wires. I love working with the Dodge vehicles with the CANBUS stuff.
Jeff
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KPierson 
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Posted: September 03, 2009 at 12:48 PM / IP Logged  

The best way to troubleshoot a problem like that is to first determine what controls those lights.  Next, you have to figure out what, under normal circumstances, would turn those lights on.  Lastly, you figure out what has changed.

I realize that this is a very simplistic approach, but if you can figure out each of these things you'll at least know where to start looking.

Kevin Pierson
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
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Posted: September 05, 2009 at 3:47 PM / IP Logged  

The other CAN /LIN system advantage is that it offers built in diagnostic ability, apart from the weight and cost saving, chips are cheaper than copper wire.

Come to think of it, KP was almost right , BMW used it on the secondary lock control from 98, Mercedes from about 95 on the locks and the good old Ford Probe from who knows when.  Did I call a Probe good?  What a nasty car.

nfrank89 
Copper - Posts: 86
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Posted: September 07, 2009 at 4:23 AM / IP Logged  
can you explain can and lin busses to me? and yeah i was thinking they must have some kind of built in diagnostic computer...
and kpierson... isnt this the troubleshooting process for any system? lol
KPierson 
Platinum - Posts: 3,527
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Posted: September 07, 2009 at 7:22 AM / IP Logged  

Yes, basic troubleshooting rules.

You would be better off to do a google search for the busses, but from memory the basics are:

CAN bus - two wire high speed system where there is no master controlling communication.  Any module on the bus can send a message to any (or all) module at any given time, assuming the bus is clear.  There is a system in place to request and arbitrate which module has control of the bus.

LIN bus - one wire low speed system where the master must start all communications.  This was designed to be a "low cost" bus and typically is used on non critical tasks, like body control stuff .

Both systems transmit serial data on the bus.  CAN busses are cool because they can detect wiring faults and if a wire is damaged the bus will automatically switch to a reduced speed one wire bus to keep things running.

There is obviously, much, much more to them then this, this is just a basic outline.

Kevin Pierson
nfrank89 
Copper - Posts: 86
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Joined: April 30, 2009
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: September 07, 2009 at 4:05 PM / IP Logged  
so basically they turn the whole vehicle into a circuit board
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