big box employees vs. independent employees

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howie ll

Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466

Joined: January 09, 2007

Location: United Kingdom

Posted: January 14, 2010 at 5:27 PM / IP Logged

I'm with t&t and KTM 110% here.

KPierson

Platinum - Posts: 3,527

This member consistently provides reliable information

Joined: April 14, 2005

Location: Ohio, United States

Posted: January 14, 2010 at 5:38 PM / IP Logged

Former Circuit City employee (years ago).

All three CCs I installed at we got power directly from the battery. It took a bit longer, but at least standardized our installs and eliminated issues like this.

Kevin Pierson

beegbie

Copper - Posts: 341

Joined: August 17, 2002

Location: United States

Posted: January 14, 2010 at 6:28 PM / IP Logged

t&t tech wrote:

I could be wrong but i think that metz didn't mean the actual alarm's power connection, but the remote start portion, just the current wires for the remote start! That's the way i interpreted it! So no beegbie the car won't burn, the wires at the ignition harness must be fused from oem specs, also it is totally safe to do so, even though the remote start is fused at thirty amps!

The determining factor here would be the installer, the majority who have been under dashes for years will almost certainly go to a better current source, althought it isn't necassary, it just "feels" right! No installer who cares about his work would like to complete something and have his conscience bug him after, because he's thinking he should have gone to the larger current wire! At least i speak for myself there anyway!

Metz can clarify my opening statement! If however he did actually mean the entire alarm's power supply, then no, it's just plain wrong to connect to such a low current source!

I'm still not completely sure on this one. If the Ignition switch had a 12v feed that is fused at 2amps and it has 2 outputs (ignition and accessory)and one of the two outputs begins to draw more than two amps because of a malfunction the two amp fuse will blow. If your feeding that same malfunctioning output with the 30 amp fuses they will not blow and now is where the smoke and fire happens. A 20 gauge wire drawing 25-30 amps will heat up and burn. Is this scenario possible or am I missing something?

t&t tech

Platinum - Posts: 2,611

Joined: October 05, 2008

Location: Trinidad and Tobago

Posted: January 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM / IP Logged

Umm! If for some strange reason a mafunction does occur, how then would a wire capable of two amps, that supplies the relays that energize the various circuits supply more? The "malfunction" would be present with remote start or without so therefore the fuse will pop anyway!

I don't think the coil of a relay can cause a current draw that significant! Unless they were changed over to relays that had a larger coil draw, but either way it should still be safe!

commit your way to jehovah and he will act in your behalf. psalms 37:5

beegbie

Copper - Posts: 341

Joined: August 17, 2002

Location: United States

Posted: January 14, 2010 at 7:12 PM / IP Logged

t&t tech wrote:

Umm! If for some strange reason a mafunction does occur, how then would a wire capable of two amps, that supplies the relays that energize the various circuits supply more?

In my scenario this is the malfunction. Besides, the wire won't supply more currant, the circuits draw more. If it wasn't possible for the circuits to draw more there would be no fuse at all from the factory.

The "malfunction" would be present with remote start or without so therefore the fuse will pop anyway!

I don't think the coil of a relay can cause a current draw that significant! Unless they were changed over to relays that had a larger coil draw, but either way it should still be safe!

Yes the malfunction would be present with or without but if your using a larger feed with larger fuses and not using the 2 amp feed how would it blow the 2 amp fuse? Magic?

t&t tech

Platinum - Posts: 2,611

Joined: October 05, 2008

Location: Trinidad and Tobago

Posted: January 14, 2010 at 8:27 PM / IP Logged

I think we misunderstood each other! Firstly, i meant if the heavy gauge current wires were connected to the two amp source then it would have no adverse effects, seeing that the key does the same, secondly i didn't comprehend that you meant if the heavy gauge wires were connected to a larger current source that this could cause the burning you reffered to, i thought you were reffering to the same two amp source!

Thirdly, the wires in question here are connected to the coils or various relays are they not?

And lastly this was not the intent of the thread to argue about a malfunction that may happen, it's about a simple principle that has been brought up in a discussion! Mr beegbie i do apologize if i offended you! I will refrain from arguing this point any further!

commit your way to jehovah and he will act in your behalf. psalms 37:5

beegbie

Copper - Posts: 341

Joined: August 17, 2002

Location: United States

Posted: January 14, 2010 at 8:37 PM / IP Logged

No offence taken. Just a simple misunderstanding. If you look back to shadyinstallers post that I responded to I think he was saying that he grabs power at a different source and doesn't change fuses which I'm pretty sure is not such a good idea. When done constructively arguments aren't always a bad thing.

chriswallace187

Gold - Posts: 1,661

Joined: March 11, 2002

Location: Pennsylvania, United States

Posted: January 15, 2010 at 7:19 PM / IP Logged

yimke wrote:

Big Box store here.

I would never hook my power source up to a 2A wire. You can usually find a more suitable constant power source, and I think there has only been one car where I had to run a power kit to the battery. I never use less than a 10A power source. Reason for this is if some jack comes in and changes my negative light connection to + for some reason, I want to have enough current to do so.

Usually I have to think about not how I am going to install it, but how people down the road are going to troubleshoot/look at it. Technically yes you can use less than a 10A wire, but you have to think about how much you are hooking up. For example, roughly there is about 250ma draw for each relay used to turn on the remote start from the brain, and there is usually 1 starter, 1 acc, and 2 igns. So there is at MINIMUM 1A there. Therefore when you figure in 250ma for you negative trigger p-lights, locks, arm/disarm, etc.... 2A is plain and simple just risky to hook up to.

Spend the extra time/materials to do the job so you don't have to touch it again.

I'm independent, but have worked at Circuit City, and agree with the above rationale. If the factory fuse was 7.5A or higher (I've never seen a 5A), I usually consider that sufficiently excess capacity to add on the draw of the control module's processor and its relays, assuming no high current outputs were being used in this install.

If I had employees/coworkers to worry about, I'd be tempted to go to the fusebox/BCM/battery for any ignition circuit fused at 30A or less.

Lastly, I think it's worth noting that at one Circuit City near where I worked, the installers went to the opposite extreme, and sold the customers an 8-gauge power wire kit every time they had to do a car with a low current ignition switch, because they somehow reasoned that the remote starter was going to put 60 amps through the thin wires on the ignition switch without frying anything.

C Renner's Auto Electronix

My service is cheap, quick, and good - pick any two

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big box employees vs. independent employees

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