viper dei 5902 confusing

Kevin,

        Your advice is to take everything out and send it all back.  I would be better off creating my own alarm system at that point.  This is not an elite alarm system which should require top secret activities to install.  This is off the shelf.  And yes the owners manual says only a trained technician should install but then again so does a cordless drill that you buy at walmart.  That warning is irrelevant.  Make a product support it end of story.  We could sit here and bicker and nothing would get accomplished.  I wold rather spend my energy getting this to work.

Sneaky-

1       Actually my car does have two ignitions, but I just tied them together, the car starts fine under my control, So I figured nothing negative came of it. 

2       Thank you for the explanation of this remote start activation wire.  I do understand now.  It is so that if I am too lazy to puch the button on the remote then I can hit that button instead.

3       Yes the RED / Black wire is connected to my bus bar, I will check the fuse and connection to the box and get back to you, but remember I do have power on the wire to my starter (starter side) when the alarm is trying to start and I have jumpered to power with that same wire while it is trying to start and still nothing.

And I have to agree with you about the wires being right out of the alarm i just think that I have a security issue with the car.

You should NOT tie seperate ignitions feeds togehter, you must use seperate relays to A) maintain isolation and B) make sure you have enough current for both ignitions.  If the OEM intended for those circuits to be common there would only be one ignition instead of two.

It still sounds to me like you have a clutch interlock problem.  The starter wire on most vehicles leaves the ignition and either goes through a clutch switch or set of contacts.  If your clutch switch really does output a (-) signal when the clutch is pushed then that would indicate there is most likely a set of contacts somewhere that starter output wires goes through before hitting the starter. 

I would disconnect the status output of the alarm from the clutch switch and then try the tests again with manually holding the clutch in.

Regardless of ignition wiring the starter should still activate when you apply power to the line.  Perhaps you can completely disconnect the alarm from the car and use your alligator clips to jump from 12vdc to the starter wire and play around with pushing the clutch in and out and see if you can get the starter to engage at all.

One big issue with remote starts on manual cars is there is very little support for clutch bypassing and in most cases the installer is left to figure it out on his own with no guidence.

Also, unrelated to this, were you able to program the tach signal properly?

First to answer your last question, yes i believe so.  You see I was going off the 5901 manual and followed it's dierection on system features menu.  page 39 tells you how to get into that feature.  reason I am not sure if I did it right is that according to the manual, menu 3 (remote start) item 2 (Engine checking mode) opt 4 should be tach.  Well my brain, more than likely because it is the 5902 and not the 5901 does not have a 4 opt and of course there is nothing to tell you what one you chose just what numbered option you chose.  S I left it with the third option which is off according to the 5901 manual but I was hoping it would be tach and that they just got rid of off.  By the way the other two options are opt 1-Virtual Tach,  opt 2- Voltage.

I will look into the clutch being the cause of my issue, but i am positive on the negative feed.  But as I have said I can start the car myself just fine and i have tried holding the clutch in when the alarm is trying to start the car.

I will have to use that darn flex relay for that second ign then and who knows it may solve my non-start issue.  Thanks for the continued support even after our argument, i honestly appreciate it.

Like I said before, the starter should engage regardless of ignition powering so it won't fix the issue you are having.

I wonder how much current the clutch interlock passes?  Perhaps the clutch switch is on the (-) side of the solenoid and the starter is on the positive?  If that is the case, your (-) 200mA status output is most likely fried and that would explain why it hasn't worked.  On the other hand though, when manually pushing the clutch in the car should have started....  Definately seems strange. 

Regarding the "arguement" like I said I was just trying to fill you in why there is no documentation - it isn't an "issue" that DEI cares to address, they do it for a reason.

Understood.

Now that I am hooking up the flex relay, do you happen to know if I need to hook up H3/8 -Flex relay input-  I would think of this like the common on the relay, but then why would I have H3/2.  I have the idea of the 87 and 87a of the flex relay being scources of power to come out H3/7.  Where as the 87a is normally closed and uses the cars power scource , but for what cause if it gets power from that ignition 2 wire then what does it need to send power to or am I supposed to cut ignition 2 wire and wire the car side to H3/7 and the key side to H3/8?

I'm not sure what the pin numbers mean - what are the names?

For second ignition you would want Pin 30 (common) connected to high current 12vdc and 87 (NO) connected to 2nd ignition.  87A (NC) you would leave disconnected in this case.

Of course you could reverse the connections above since we are only talking about a simple switch at this point.

unfortunately the flex relay is internal in the 5902 and there is no documentation to tell you which outside leads go to which on the relay.  H3/2 (harness 3 / pin 2) is a RED / Wht wire labeled as -  (+) Fused (30A) Ignition 2/ Flex Relay Input 87  -

H3/7 is a Pnk/Wht wire labeled as -  (+) Ignition 2/ Flex Relay Output  -

H3/8 is a Pnk/Blk Wire labeled as -  (+) Plex Relay Input 87A key side (if required) of Flex Realy-

so as I said, I am thinking that they are using the two 87's as the input and switching the input.  so it is more a dpst relay instead.  That way, if the car controls it, the ignition 2 gets power from ignition switch keyside and if the remote start is activated then ignition 2 gets power from the flex relay from the power bus connection into H3/2.