the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
icon

an extra battery


Post ReplyPost New Topic
< Prev Topic Next Topic >
italian_virus 
Copper - Posts: 143
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 26, 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: June 10, 2010 at 1:03 PM / IP Logged  
How goes it Gentlemen?
Im currently debating on putting an extra battery in my truck for my system. Reason being is that im finding my system is drawing alot from the battery so in turn my gauges flicker when im stopped at a light. I also have poor radio reception(only when i turn on my HID's)
& alternator whine. Most likely grounding is an issue.. hence me wanting to add an extra battery in the mix.
The question i have is.. does it matter if the battery is deepcycle? am i looking for something specific? or just any type of battery?
My setup is as follows..
2 10" rockford fosgate subs with 2 1farad caps in parallel connected to a 900W 2 channel rockford fosgate amp
2 front component sets rockford fosgate
2 rear 6 1/2 rockford fosgate both connected to a 4 channel rockford fosgate amp.
what do you think?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
bloob 
Member - Posts: 20
Member spacespace
Joined: June 09, 2010
Posted: June 10, 2010 at 1:47 PM / IP Logged  
i think you need to research "upgrading the big 3" which will probably do everything you need. if you are not pulling over 1000 watts, you shouldn't even need the caps after upgrading the big 3.
basically you'll be changing your stock wiring to 4 gauge or bigger at 3 locations.
-alt positive to battery positive (include a 150 amp fuse w/in 6 inches of battery terminal)
-battery negative to chassis
-engine to chassis ground
upgrading the grounds alone made a HUGE difference in my system.
italian_virus 
Copper - Posts: 143
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 26, 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: June 10, 2010 at 3:26 PM / IP Logged  
bloob wrote:
i think you need to research "upgrading the big 3" which will probably do everything you need. if you are not pulling over 1000 watts, you shouldn't even need the caps after upgrading the big 3.
basically you'll be changing your stock wiring to 4 gauge or bigger at 3 locations.
-alt positive to battery positive (include a 150 amp fuse w/in 6 inches of battery terminal)
-battery negative to chassis
-engine to chassis ground
upgrading the grounds alone made a HUGE difference in my system.
the big 3 have already been upgraded to 4 gauge
the only thing i can see different is that the connection from my alternator to my battery is about 3ft cause i had extra cable and didnt wanna cut it
and is it necessary to add the fuse when making that connection from the alternator to the battery? ;s i didnt add that
bloob 
Member - Posts: 20
Member spacespace
Joined: June 09, 2010
Posted: June 10, 2010 at 4:08 PM / IP Logged  
italian_virus wrote:
I also have poor radio reception(only when i turn on my HID's)
& alternator whine. Most likely grounding is an issue..
The question i have is.. does it matter if the battery is deepcycle? am i looking for something specific? or just any type of battery?
Thanks
i'm not a pro, but in the past when i added on aftermarket HID lights there was an electrical system mismatch that caused all sorts of gremlins. I don't know if this might be the case for you.
If all your problems only happen when you use HIDS and they are aftermarket, i would look there for the culprit.
otherwise, your battery and alternator should have no problems keeping up with you if you upgraded the big three. If you have a stock alternator, you'll probly kill it if you add another battery as it will have to keep up with 2 batteries.
to my knowledge, it is always wise to fuse a wire that runs a hot current. If somehow that alternator to battery line came unattached from the battery (like in an accident or somesuch)and grounded it would make quite the display of hate. I.E fire.
italian_virus 
Copper - Posts: 143
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 26, 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: June 13, 2010 at 2:50 PM / IP Logged  
but i was under the assumption that when you add another battery your going to take the load of the alternator & other battery thats running the car's essentials. I was going to use the battery to just power my amps nothing else..
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: June 13, 2010 at 9:44 PM / IP Logged  
Your assumption is incorrect.
You have a reception problem - noise from the HIDs that is strong compared to the radio reception. (HIDs use high-frequency dc-dc converters. They can radiate EMI through cases or leads.)
The only reason for battery-alternator fuse is if the alternator end comes loose - the fuse is to stop the battery shorting to GND. (Older vehicles rarely had a fuse as to lose that connection would usually cook the vehicle electrics. Instead they relied on "physical security" much like the battery to starter cable - though the alternator cable had a better chance of burning itself out....)
You can add a 2nd battery across the amps. It should be an AGM but its size depends on what you want. Any small AGM will substitute as a capacitor to limit flicker (12V-7AH being an economical choice).
Bigger if you want (audio) reserve time independent of the main battery. Bigger else deep cycle for longer reserve time. Low ESR for less flicker (dips & sags).
Treat paralleled batteries in accordance with what you believe.
italian_virus 
Copper - Posts: 143
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 26, 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: June 22, 2010 at 12:56 PM / IP Logged  
ahhhhhhhhh ic ok thank u
well now
so it looks like im gonna need an HO alternator to fix this issue
ahh
its all good i guess i have to do what is necessary
thx guys
haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,054
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: June 22, 2010 at 1:53 PM / IP Logged  
COMPLETELY wrong. If the batteries are in parallel, they will both provide one half of the ENTIRE system's electrical needs, but ONLY after the alternator can no longer provide the required current.
THE ALTERNATOR IS THE SOURCE OF ALL ELECTRICAL POWER IN A RUNNING CAR!
Extra batteries do nothing but provide an additional load for the battery to charge and provide additional parking lot - i.e. engine off - listening time.
Let's liken your car's electrical system to a municipal water system, because that's really what it's very much like...
The water for the system originates from a well (the alternator) and is pumped to storage facilities (the battery), through a 4 inch pipe (4G wire) and all of the demands of the city (the accessories) are pumped to those users through 1" pipes (18G wires). Now the pumps are JUST big enough to keep the tanks full (battery charged), while all of the users are using all of their full demands... There is a stasis. The water going in is the same amount as the water going out, with occasional times where there is "slightly more" water than is necessary, and the pumps can take a rest. The charge on the battery is always more or less full. The tanks are full...
Now, let's say the municipality wants to add a water park. This will be your amplifier. This water park needs an additional 4" (4G wire) water pipe for it own uses. What's going to happen to the water in the reservoir? It's going to get lower and lower and lower, until all the pumps at the wells are running ALL THE TIME, in a duty cycle they are not designed to run in - 100%, and WFO. They are going to fry, as will your alternator, eventually. A cap? It's just an "auxiliary tank", with a bubble of compressed air contained within it with the water - to "push" the water when a little more pressure (current) is required. It'll provide a LITTLE extra current, for a short period of time, until the "pressure" inside becomes the same pressure as the rest of the system, and then it has to be pumped full and re-pressurized to do it's job again. From where? That's right - the pumps (alternator) and the main tank (battery). It does ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING TO HELP YOUR SITUATION, and in the long run, can even be a hindrance to achieving your ultimate goal.
Second tank (battery)? The pumps'll fill it up too, certainly - in times of short demand - but the ultimate result is identical, only now TWO TANKS are empty.
If you see headlight dimming, you are overworking your alternator, period - the pump is too small. If you have already upgraded your underhood wiring (bigger pipes between the pump and the reservoir), and you are still seeing dimming, you do not have enough alternator. Address that first.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: June 22, 2010 at 5:29 PM / IP Logged  
Haemo - I'm not sure what you are referring to as completely wrong.
IMO we are discussing a battery dedicated to the audio (after a big-3 upgrade etc for noise & dipping).    
On re-read I realise that the alternator wasn't covered, but I replied only to the OP's assumption.
And I wasn't assuming a parallel battery for running the load (engine off).
The dipping of lights can also be distribution.
But in the water analogy, a cap and battery isn't under pressure - they are merely additional open-air reservoirs.
And except for inefficiency, a battery is an "extra load" as much as it is a "load saver" on the electrical system. (A cap is close to 100% efficient whereas a battery has both charge and supply inefficiencies (tens of percent...), and a cap requires its initial charge....)
That's not quite as simple as a bigger water reservoir being more strain on the clouds (or wells), though a smaller reservoir needs rain more often....
But absolutely, it is the alternator that supplies the electrics. That's something many never seem to understand!
Long term, the battery or cap is zero load (excluding float or leakage currents) and there is no battery charge/discharge inefficiency when the alternator is supplying the load.
Generally the bigger the battery the better. Bigger means less discharge (depth) hence lower recharge current (magnitude - not time) and lower losses etc, and longer life (or rather, less stress....). But after a certain size, its extra intertia outweighs (pun!) electrical-power gains and lifecycle economics.
(In other words, most settle for good & reliable enough is big enough....)
mastermindz 
Copper - Posts: 70
Copper spacespace
Joined: December 17, 2009
Location: California, United States
Posted: June 25, 2010 at 12:50 AM / IP Logged  
So if I've already upgraded my big three (4 gauge), and I
have dimming lights, whine and amp in protect mode my next step is better alternator?
Mastermindz
Page of 2

  Printable version Printable version Post ReplyPost New Topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

  •  
Search the12volt.com
Follow the12volt.com Follow the12volt.com on Facebook
Thursday, March 28, 2024 • Copyright © 1999-2024 the12volt.com, All Rights Reserved Privacy Policy & Use of Cookies
Disclaimer: *All information on this site ( the12volt.com ) is provided "as is" without any warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including but not limited to fitness for a particular use. Any user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and use of this information. Please verify all wire colors and diagrams before applying any information.

Secured by Sectigo
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
Support the12volt.com
Top
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer