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honda 919 elec system power, battery


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garrettmarvel 
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Posted: September 13, 2010 at 9:36 AM / IP Logged  

i bought a 2005 919 with 5400 mi on it a few weeks back, and i love it - what a great bike!

so i installed a Lanzar speaker and amp stereo system on the bike ( [url]http://www.amazon.com/Lanzar-OPTIMC90-Motorcycle-Snowmobile-Weatherproof/dp/B003HH96IU[/url] ) which sounds great, but when i parked the bike and tried to restart it after riding for a while that day, the battery was shot and wouldn't restart the bike.

I noticed while installing the system the battery itself is physically smaller than was on my 92 nighthawk 750, so am i just adding more power request for the stereo from a smaller less powerful battery?

anybody good with electronics, car/cycle mobile stereos, or know about the bike's elec system for running and charging the batter while in use?

Thanks!

oldspark 
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Posted: September 16, 2010 at 6:03 PM / IP Logged  
Are you sure the amp is not being left on/powered? (Hence draining the battery?)
If it isn't being left powered, it means your charger (alternator) isn't big enough to handle the extra load.
In that case, a bigger battery will merely extend the reserve time until it recharges.
As to a bigger battery - that's merely a physical thing; not system changes are required.
(Smaller batteries may require current limits, and different battery types like AGM or Gels may require some mods - but they have little if any advantage in this situation.)   
IN summary - find out why your battery is flattening. Age/temperature? Underated alternator? Being drained whist "off"?
garrettmarvel 
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Posted: September 17, 2010 at 8:22 AM / IP Logged  

i installed the stereo/speakers/amp seperately from the bike electronics with a power cutoff switch, so it is not left on or draining the batter when the bike is not running.  that should eliminate the battery draining question.

though how would i find out about the underated alternator?  I assume I can check the batter age... can i somehow test the battery's viability?

Thanks!

honda 919 elec system power, battery -- posted image.

oldspark 
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Posted: September 17, 2010 at 9:39 AM / IP Logged  
A voltmeter across the battery.
Charging should be 13.8-14.4V.
Less indicates undercharging.
Although anything above the battery voltage is charging, it may not enough to recover cranking & used charge.
Voltage dips at low RPM (especially with headlights etc) is normal.
Overcharging is when above 14.4V longterm.
A battery will often be ~13.8V after charging but after resting (12-24 hours or after surface charge is removed) it should be 12.6-12.8V fully charged without no load.
A flattery (flat batt - as in totally discharged) will be 1-1.5V lower - ie, ~11.3V (rested and no load).
(Normal cranking batteries should not be discharged to under 70% capacity.)
I use a "0.1V = 10%" rule - ie, if the full battery is 12.7V, then at 12.4V it is 30% discharged (0.3V => 30%).
But don't confuse open circuit (non-loaded) battery voltages with batteries under load. EG - a fully charged 12.7V battery may drop to 11, 10, or 9 volts during cranking.   
And temperatures affect voltages.
The above is a rough guide....
garrettmarvel 
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Posted: September 28, 2010 at 5:23 PM / IP Logged  
oldspark wrote:
A voltmeter across the battery.
Charging should be 13.8-14.4V.
Less indicates undercharging.
Although anything above the battery voltage is charging, it may not enough to recover cranking & used charge.
Voltage dips at low RPM (especially with headlights etc) is normal.
Overcharging is when above 14.4V longterm.
A battery will often be ~13.8V after charging but after resting (12-24 hours or after surface charge is removed) it should be 12.6-12.8V fully charged without no load.
A flattery (flat batt - as in totally discharged) will be 1-1.5V lower - ie, ~11.3V (rested and no load).
(Normal cranking batteries should not be discharged to under 70% capacity.)
I use a "0.1V = 10%" rule - ie, if the full battery is 12.7V, then at 12.4V it is 30% discharged (0.3V => 30%).
But don't confuse open circuit (non-loaded) battery voltages with batteries under load. EG - a fully charged 12.7V battery may drop to 11, 10, or 9 volts during cranking.   
And temperatures affect voltages.
The above is a rough guide....
hmmmm, lots of info there... so what do i do when? should i put the volt meter over the battery while cold and not running? should i put voltmeter across battery after bike has been running with stereo pumping for a while to see where the battery is after extended use?
I killed the battery again riding over the weekend with the stereo playing and had to jump it, then after riding for 20ish minutes on sunday and not riding since then, the battery had enough kick to start on its own today. so it seems like the battery can hold its charge but with the stereo on running for awhile, it its too much for the alternator/system (?) when engine is on and draws from the battery and drags it down...
can the system be goosed somehow or a bigger alternator (or whatever) added to provide the extra juice when running to power the stereo without eating into the battery?
anything else i'm missing? my mechanical degree only took my to EE101, so i basically get it, but electricity is still more magic than reality for me honda 919 elec system power, battery -- posted image.
Thanks! Garrett
oldspark 
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Posted: September 28, 2010 at 8:20 PM / IP Logged  
Normally running & charging should be 13.8-14.4V.
awdeclipse 
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Posted: September 29, 2010 at 12:46 PM / IP Logged  
If you think the stereo is the reason, measure battery voltage with stereo on and off and see what the difference is for the same test conditions.
For example warm the bike up measure battery voltage with stereo off and then turn the stereo on and see what your battery voltage is. If the stereo is consuming more power then the alternator is capable of outputting this should be reflected in a decrease in battery voltage.
As oldspark mentioned lower voltage at low RPMs is normal so maybe test this at 2 different engine speeds.
garrettmarvel 
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Posted: October 03, 2010 at 2:34 PM / IP Logged  
so i checked voltage on the battery while idling after bike sat for 3hrs today, giving 13.45V
with stereo on at 8 out of 10 volume the voltage dropped to 12.91V, then when upped volume to 9/10 the volume dropped further to 12.75V, and seemed to vary based on music/song density up and down a little, possible to drop a bit further...
so it appears alternator cannot handle power required by stereo when turned up for driving speeds - so is the answer to purchase a higher output alternator? is such a thing possible?
oldspark 
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Posted: October 03, 2010 at 3:44 PM / IP Logged  
Unless you have bad voltage drops from the alternator & grounds (see the "Big 3"), then yes, your alternator is undersized. Else maybe worn brushes (if it has them).
I don't know if higher output alts are available for yours - you'll have to search - but except perhaps for permanent magnet types, it should be possible to rewire your alternator, and - if needed, - maybe beef up the regulator. Again - search.
Maybe a 919 club?
(Is that a Duc? I modified my old Duc 750 "permanent magnet" 2-phase 120W alternator so that it would charge when under 3,000 RPM (over 100kph/60mph in top gear), and so that I could start with a flat battery (the standard regulator needed power to start passing power - most annoying when the alternator does NOT need electrical power to generate!).
garrettmarvel 
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Joined: May 26, 2010
Location: New York, United States
Posted: October 04, 2010 at 1:02 PM / IP Logged  

oldspark wrote:
Unless you have bad voltage drops from the alternator & grounds (see the "Big 3"), then yes, your alternator is undersized. Else maybe worn brushes (if it has them).
I don't know if higher output alts are available for yours - you'll have to search - but except perhaps for permanent magnet types, it should be possible to rewire your alternator, and - if needed, - maybe beef up the regulator. Again - search.
Maybe a 919 club?
(Is that a Duc? I modified my old Duc 750 "permanent magnet" 2-phase 120W alternator so that it would charge when under 3,000 RPM (over 100kph/60mph in top gear), and so that I could start with a flat battery (the standard regulator needed power to start passing power - most annoying when the alternator does NOT need electrical power to generate!).

I have searched some and found nothing off the shelf for my bike.  What is a regulator vs. an alternator?  It sounds like I am going to be S.O.L. for an affordable solution, winding coils myself I would not recommend...

any other last thoughts?

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