the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
icon

i need a cap


Post ReplyPost New Topic
< Prev Topic Next Topic >
tommy... 
Gold - Posts: 1,901
Gold spacespace
Joined: December 10, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: April 10, 2012 at 4:14 PM / IP Logged  
Upgrading Your Charging System
This is a popular topic and many people think there are simple answers. The answers may be simple but the solutions are often very expensive. Some of the problems and solutions will be covered on this page.
Dimming Headlights:
This is the most common complaint for those who have installed high-power sound systems in their vehicles. This problem can sometimes be overcome by installing an alternator rated for higher current but this isn't always the case. Some alternators have a slight regulator lag and, even though the alternator can produce the required current, it doesn't react quickly enough to prevent short-term dimming. This can vary between various alternators, even if they're rated for the same current. In some instances, the owner of a vehicle will install multiple alternators. The OEM alternator will power the vehicle's electronics and charge the OEM battery. One or more alternators will power the amplifiers and charge auxiliary batteries. Since the amplifiers aren't drawing current from the OEM system, the lights cannot dim.
If you replace incandescent headlamps (standard and halogen headlamps) with HID headlamps, the headlamps won't likely dim. HID lamps have a ballast that acts like a regulator. This regulator will keep the voltage/current constant and will therefore prevent dimming.
In some instances, you may be able to use a voltage regulator for incandescent headlamps. This is safer if you only do it for the low beams OR the high beams. This will prevent the loss of light if the regulator fails. A regulator like the Accuvolt can keep the voltage constant. In the near future, LED headlamps will be available. These will be easier to regulate because LEDs don't need the full voltage of the charging system.
Alternators:
As was stated on the charging system basics page, the alternator supplies all of the power to all of the electrical accessories (amplifiers, lights, power windows, power seats...) as long as the engine is running (unless the current demand exceeds the capacity of the alternator).
Many people want to know when they should replace their alternator. The short answer is... when it fails. If you just want the battery to remain charged and your present alternator is keeping it charged, it's doing its job. If you want a system to be as close to perfect as possible and money is no object, replace your alternator when you install the amplifiers.
Multiple alternators was previously mentioned. It's very difficult to install multiple alternators on many of the newer cars because there simply isn't any available space. For older vehicles and trucks, there are more options. You can buy brackets for multiple alternators. THIS is one example.
Extra Batteries:
Extra batteries are great if you want to listen to your system with the engine off. While the alternator is charging, the extra batteries will only draw current which could otherwise be going to your amplifiers. For proof, all you have to do is measure the voltage while the engine is running. It should be approximately 13.5-14.4 volts DC. Then turn the engine off and measure the battery voltage again. Now it'll be around 12-12.5 volts. Whenever the voltage at the battery is near 14 volts, there is current flowing into the battery. The only time that the battery supplies current with the engine running is when the current capacity of the alternator has been exceeded. When that happens and the batteries are the source of power, the voltage supplied by the batteries will be significantly less than the voltage of an alternator that's capable of supplying the required current.
One Farad (and larger) Capacitors:
Large, one Farad, capacitors only help to maintain the charging voltage for a tiny fraction of a second under high current demand situations. They won't really solve your current supply problems if your alternator can't keep up.
NOTE:
Capacitors DO NOT increase the charging system's voltage.
( Borrowed from BCAE1.com...Somehow i missed some posts)...LOL
M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: April 11, 2012 at 8:42 PM / IP Logged  
Good overview Tommy. (With thanks to BCAE.)
To paraphrase or qualify various cap claims...
Caps reduce systems voltage as much as they increase it.
Caps REDUCE the strain on systems (ie, alternators) as do - in most cases - added or bigger batteries.
A small battery will outperform a cap (in the majority of cases) - ie, a$10 1.2AH will crap on a $100 or 1F or 40F cap etc. ("Aux" or 2nd battery consideration apply.)
Many DISCONNECT caps for SPL comps (they can reduce peak SPL, ie, reduce the peak voltage available).
Caps are only used to preserve AGM battery life (excessive current) on big systems (eg, 3kW with only 1 maybe 2 AGMs).
To prevent lamp dimming, caps should be at the lamp end, not the amp. A battery would do better, but its isolation switching may be the detractor.
I'm sure I've missed a few more points. And I haven't mentioned the big-3 etc nor alternator sizing.
Geez - the things I miss out on just because I'm gone a few days! (LOL)
still_walkin 
Silver - Posts: 644
Silver spacespace
Joined: April 18, 2007
Location: California, United States
Posted: April 23, 2012 at 5:02 AM / IP Logged  
heres another way to show you caps dont work just a voltometer on the battery numbers dont lie. i been on this forum for a while andd guys never stood me wrong at one point i didnt listen to them and sure as a being out in the desert with a horse with no name my car left me stranded .... because i  didnt listen when they told me your charging system is VERy important long story short HO alt bigger battery and the big three... cant go wrong.
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: April 23, 2012 at 7:06 AM / IP Logged  
Thanks - that's good to hear. (imHo of course!)
I've always maintained that the alternator is the first target. (Well, the first after the Big 3, but that can come later unless it's a borderline case.)
If the alternator isn't big enough to handle the load over a typical drive, then the battery(s) is not recharged.
Caps will not change that in any way.
Extra or bigger batteries may extend the battery reserve time, but they will need just as much power to recharge.
And discharged batteries means sulfate build up and premature failure (more discharges & to a greater depth).
If the alternator is big enough to handle the average load (ie, enough to recharge with amps and lights etc off) but not big enough to handle the BIG load (eg, amps), the the voltage drops from (say) 14.2V to under 12.7V (1.5V lower).
So if voltage drop is so important to audio people etc, why do they think more batteries (or caps) are a higher priority than an alternator? They can only output ~12.7V and below; alternators output up to 14.4V (their long term maximum).
It beats me! (Unless promoted by battery or cap sales people & their installers.)
My biggest amusement with caps is the their original proponent (Richard Clark; and partner) has since spent much energy trying to debunk their use.
But too late - once bullsh gets a hold, followers are reluctant to let it go. Maybe they want everyone else to make the same mistakes they did?
For those that can do the cap calculations and know about batteries, the very suggestion of using a cap is ludicrous.
As I say, their only use is to prevent damage to AGM batteries, else where a 2nd battery is undesirable and Big-3 type solutions aren't enough to prevent lamp dipping etc. (One typical solution is to power the lamp relays from the main battery instead of the alternator.)
unplugme71 
Member - Posts: 26
Member spacespace
Joined: May 15, 2012
Location: New Jersey, United States
Posted: May 21, 2012 at 11:27 AM / IP Logged  

Capacitors are widely used in electronic circuits for blocking DC while allowing AC to pass. It is used for smoothing the output of power supplies, stabilizing voltage, and power flow.

'03 Acura RSX Type-S
DYohn 
Moderator - Posts: 10,740
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: May 21, 2012 at 1:30 PM / IP Logged  
Gentlemen, there is no need to do wholesale cut-and-paste from BCAE or anywhere else to this forum.  If you'd like to post a link to the information, that's great, but copying violates their copyright.
Support the12volt.com
still_walkin 
Silver - Posts: 644
Silver spacespace
Joined: April 18, 2007
Location: California, United States
Posted: May 21, 2012 at 1:35 PM / IP Logged  
Its only one way to solve this capacitor war and that's to get the same exact car but add caps to one and and add the big 3 ho alt and a bigger battery to the other run meters on them.I know which one gonna but I don't want to ruin the story.
Well the one without the cap
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"
DYohn 
Moderator - Posts: 10,740
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: May 21, 2012 at 1:42 PM / IP Logged  

For anyone who needs a cap, I recommend one of these:

i need a cap - Page 2 -- posted image.

Support the12volt.com
still_walkin 
Silver - Posts: 644
Silver spacespace
Joined: April 18, 2007
Location: California, United States
Posted: May 21, 2012 at 1:46 PM / IP Logged  
Don't forget those cool stickers that auto zone sells
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: May 21, 2012 at 4:23 PM / IP Logged  
DYohn wrote:
...there is no need to do wholesale cut-and-paste from .... or anywhere else to this forum...
LOL! i need a cap - Page 2 -- posted image. i need a cap - Page 2 -- posted image.
Page of 3

  Printable version Printable version Post ReplyPost New Topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

  •  
Search the12volt.com
Follow the12volt.com Follow the12volt.com on Facebook
Saturday, October 1, 2022 • Copyright © 1999-2022 the12volt.com, All Rights Reserved Privacy Policy & Use of Cookies
Disclaimer: *All information on this site ( the12volt.com ) is provided "as is" without any warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including but not limited to fitness for a particular use. Any user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and use of this information. Please verify all wire colors and diagrams before applying any information.

Secured by Sectigo
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
Support the12volt.com
Top
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer