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wiring up a system in a train


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Custom_Jim 
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Joined: November 28, 2003
Location: Missouri, United States
Posted: December 12, 2012 at 2:06 PM / IP Logged  

Keep in mind that at some point one or more of the cars may be taken off of the train to where if the system was originally designed for 4 cars and then at some point the train had only two cars, how that might affect your design and impedances. Also look at it the other way in that there possibly might be 6 cars hooked up and then this too would change the impedance.  Another thing to keep in mind on the wiring is if car number 2 is at the end and then possibly moved to the one directly behind the trains pull engine how this might affect things.

With three speakers in each of the four cars, are they wanting any kind of stereo sound or just a mono sound ?.  From what I read the system you are working on will have 12 speakers for a mono setup or 6 speakers each for a stereo setup ?

I'm unfamiliar with the 70V systems but I think on those there are different speaker taps depending on the amount of speakers in the system. On a 70V system I wonder if with one design with all 4 cars hooked up it will be fine but then if it only had two or one cars attached if it would still be fine.

Jim

1968 Chevy II Nova Garage Find 2012
1973 Nova Custom
1974 Spirit of America Nova
1973 Nova Pro-Street
1977 Nova (Sold)
robd007 
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Location: Texas, United States
Posted: December 13, 2012 at 4:28 PM / IP Logged  
I was planning on just running the 12 speakers in mono.  I explained to them about the cars being taken off and that if they were, they would have to go back in the same order.  I'm not familiar with the 70 volt speakers either, but am going to do some research on them and learn something new.
KPierson 
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Joined: April 14, 2005
Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: December 13, 2012 at 5:20 PM / IP Logged  
70V systems are pretty easy. You buy an amplifier (say 100W) and you buy X amount of speakers. The speakers have transformers on them that typically have multiple taps. Usually, you can select the voltage and wattage of each speaker by picking the right two wires. So, if you have 10 speakers you could wire them all at 10W (100W total). In a 70V system, as long as your amp is big enough, it makes no difference to the system if there are 10 speakers or only 1 speaker on the amp. Also, you can put separate volume controls on each speaker which can be convenient.
Kevin Pierson
Custom_Jim 
Copper - Posts: 196
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 28, 2003
Location: Missouri, United States
Posted: December 13, 2012 at 10:10 PM / IP Logged  

robd007 wrote:
I was planning on just running the 12 speakers in mono.  I explained to them about the cars being taken off and that if they were, they would have to go back in the same order.  I'm not familiar with the 70 volt speakers either, but am going to do some research on them and learn something new.

If you install a 70 volt system then out of the engine of the train where your electronics would be you would have a two conductor female polarized plug. On the front of each car you would have a two conductor male polarized plug. At the rear of each car you would then have a two conductor female polarized plug. If for some reason one of the cars could be run backwards then you would need a male to male coupler or a female to female coupler. The reason I'm suggesting polarized plugs is to keep things in phase. All of your speakers are then parallel wired off of these two lines that also have the transformers on them.

The sets of trains I worked on (actually trams for hauling people around at Grants Farm in Saint Louis) did not allow the cars to be run backwards like what is normally found on something like a regular train car designed for hauling products cross country so I did not have to worry about any couplers. Luckily on the trams I worked on they had existing speaker lines run and the connections for the speakers were in multiple pin connectors that also had circuits in them for lighting, brake systems, and emergency lights to where if a car had to be changed all of the electrical connections were on one plug.

On the trams I did we also installed the Pioneer wired keypads with the display on them in the back of the cars to where an announcer in the rear of the tram could adjust the audio volume and what people got to listen too with the radio being up front in the pull engine car. We also had it set up with a microphone for the driver to use and also a second one for the announcer in the rear of the trams.

Jim  

1968 Chevy II Nova Garage Find 2012
1973 Nova Custom
1974 Spirit of America Nova
1973 Nova Pro-Street
1977 Nova (Sold)
robd007 
Member - Posts: 25
Member spacespace
Joined: October 29, 2009
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: December 15, 2012 at 2:42 PM / IP Logged  

Jim, what you are describing sounds exactly like what these guys want to run in their train.  In fact it sounds like an identical train that is used for hauling people.  The wiring you describe sounds like what this train has.  Three speakers in each car and a light in each car.  The wiring that is in there now all runs to one connector that looks like a trailer plug to connect each car.  How were you able to run 2 mics, and how did you separate the mic cable at each car?  Thanks for all of the help guys.

Custom_Jim 
Copper - Posts: 196
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 28, 2003
Location: Missouri, United States
Posted: December 15, 2012 at 6:10 PM / IP Logged  

I can't remember the manufacturer of the trams but basically they had a Ford van front with two bucket seats and then a wall behind these seats that then had seats towards the rear of the vehicle. I called this part of the tram train as the power unit. The manufacturer I think was in Kansas but they already had it setup with mic cables running from inside the cab of the power unit and then had the trailer cars setup for the second mic. When we got involved with it the tram manufacturer already had the mic wires run as well as the stereo speaker wires. The trailers/cars also had motorized sun shades on the sides that came down or went up to protect the riders of the cars. When we installed the Pioneer wired remote control the motorized sun shades had been abandoned as they did not always work but they left thw wires in place. We were able to then use these two wires for the data signal from the Pioneer control pad and have it run up into the power unit to connect to it's convertor box.  Since the Pioneer was 12 volt based as well as a lot of the electronics in the tram, we just tapped into the existing 12 volt and ground wires already in place. The fun part was reading the manufacturers wiring diagram which while good was something I was not up to speed with as far as reading but the longer I studied it, the clearer it became as to how things worked.

The trailers on the install I did had 4 speakers and we set up the right side speakers as the right channel and the two left speakers as the left channel. We used Polk audio amplifiers and to keep the load/speaker impedance in check the speakers in each car are wired in series and then parallel wired to the other trailers/cars.

Hindsight I think the 70V system would be the way to go. I liked though that we did a stereo setup as during the halloween shows they could play a spooky CD and have a better sound that if it was a mono setup.

The tram company was Chance out of Kansas ( http://www.chancerides.com/peoplemovers/tramstar_lft.html )

I'll see what photo's I have and upload them to something like photobucket or youtube.

Jim

1968 Chevy II Nova Garage Find 2012
1973 Nova Custom
1974 Spirit of America Nova
1973 Nova Pro-Street
1977 Nova (Sold)
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