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need advice, dimming problem


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fosgate24360 
Copper - Posts: 104
Copper spacespace
Joined: September 19, 2010
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: August 19, 2013 at 11:03 PM / IP Logged  
ok, so im going to install a 2nd battery with that 500 amp isolator as well just like before. my only other battery is an autocraft gold series(regular not agm) rated at 1000 crank amp/850 cold crank amp/150 reserve. the xs power 3400(agm) is rated at 1000 crank amp/65 reserve/3300 max amps. would using these 2 with an isolator be a problem(mixing reg battery and agm style)?
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: August 20, 2013 at 12:46 AM / IP Logged  
Mixing any (same voltage) lead acid batteries is NEVER a problem PROVIDED an isolator is used.
However that assumes the paralleling is only when being charged (else when in use, but NOT when merely sitting and paralleling for long periods)...
AND that both batteries are in reasonable condition - ie, no collapsed or partially collapsed cells etc.
But whether AGM or wet/flooded, small and large, old and new, full or discharged does not matter when paralleled AND being charged.
Anyone that says otherwise usually does not understand batteries - nor sometimes even basic electrics! (Ohms, Thevenin, Kirchov Laws & Theorems) - though there can be some valid arguments - eg, as per jump starting vehicles with very flat batteries; etc.
fosgate24360 
Copper - Posts: 104
Copper spacespace
Joined: September 19, 2010
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: August 20, 2013 at 1:47 AM / IP Logged  
ok man, i greatly appreciate all of your valuable advice......ive read other forums and some say its ok and some say its bad to mix the 2 types as well as different brands/models. i dont see it being an issue as you stated(both being 12 volts) along with the isolator. i do remember with the 2 batteries/isolator hooked up before, i always heard a faint clicking noise when turning the key ign/run, so im assuming that means the isolator was doing its job then?
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: August 20, 2013 at 2:39 AM / IP Logged  
LOL! Tell me about the varied advice!! Recently on mp3car I've had a... er... battle with someone re that issue. He insists that paralleled batteries WHEN CHARGING must be matched. Now despite someone else pointing out that in a car, no batteries will ever be matched when there are not co-located and do not share a symmetrical (and diagonal) +ve & -ve power path, he still persists. But he also insists that two batteries when paralleled see different voltages which not only defeats his own "matching" arguments, but also defies basic electrical theory (ie, parallel devices have the SAME voltage).
There are 2 types of battery isolator - ignoring diode and MOSFET isolators which aren't even worth mentioning - other than their avoidance (except for certain rare requirements but at the expense of battery life) - namely being the common commercial offering of voltage sensing aka smart isolators, or an alternator or charge-light controlled isolator.
I use the latter since it's cheap (merely a relay of your choosing), I have a charge light, and I'm not as gullible as other charge-lighters that think voltage sensing is somehow superior (in fact they are almost always inferior in behavior), I am able to find and attach to the charge light circuit, and I hate spending an extra $50 - $400 when it isn't required.   
Anyhow, the basic charge light controlled isolator is only connected when the charge light is not illuminated.
The voltage sensing types almost always have a turn-on delay after charging commences (eg, after the voltage exceeds 13.5V etc) and usually don't disconnect until some time after charging ceases (that can be hours depending on battery surface charge).
But no isolator should connect with mere ignition unless it's intended to parallel the batteries for cranking. But they should disconnect if the engine stalls - ie, no longer charging - noting what I said earlier about the different turn-off delays.
However some use the ACC or IGN to control their isolator (relay) which is better than permanent paralleling - just don't forget to turn off the IGN or ACC!
The main feature with those is that at least with IGN/ACC off, the relay/isolator is off and hence the batteries are isolated, and that's what we want wrt to not having long-term paralleling of batteries.
Note too the situation I am talking about. I am NOT talking about paralleling batteries permanently or long term to supply a load.
I am talking about paralleling batteries that probably have different loads connected AND are ONLY paralleled when charging (and maybe on select occasions for extra reserve - eg, cranking, winching, etc) and do not share location nor balanced charge/discharge paths.
The number of times people choose to argue with me yet they are referring to long-term connected balanced systems....!!!!   need advice, dimming problem - Page 2 -- posted image.
As to sites that do not understand the difference, or fail to point out such differences... need advice, dimming problem - Page 2 -- posted image. But many make a fortune from misinformation, so why not battery & accessory suppliers?
fosgate24360 
Copper - Posts: 104
Copper spacespace
Joined: September 19, 2010
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: August 20, 2013 at 3:27 AM / IP Logged  
ok, so the isolator i have like i said is a pac 500 amp....has 4 inputs on top(2 small and 2 bigger). one small input is grounded, the other small input is remote. the 2 bigger input studs are for main power wire(in my case ill be using 0/1 gauge).....from battery 1 positive post(reg battery),  power wire runs to fuse(200 amp circuit breaker in my case) then to 1 of the bigger input studs on the isolator. then a power wire from other bigger input stud on isolator to rear of vehicle to another fuse(my other 200 amp circuit breaker) then to positive post of 2nd battery(agm). then from battery 2 positive post to capacitor positive(if i still need it).....does this sound correct?
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: August 20, 2013 at 3:36 AM / IP Logged  
It's the smaller "remote" that is controlling the PAC, so whatever that is connected to. (If you mean HU or amp remote, then whenever that "remote" is +12V.)
That PAC is merely a relay aka contactor aka isolator - whatever you want to call it. It has no smarts.
BTW - you need a fuse or breaker for the 2nd battery too! (ie, batt1 - fuse1 - isolator - fuse2 -batt2.)
fosgate24360 
Copper - Posts: 104
Copper spacespace
Joined: September 19, 2010
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: August 20, 2013 at 3:47 AM / IP Logged  
Yea I wrote that I have another breaker for the other battery too sorry. So that schematic will work in my previous post?
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: August 20, 2013 at 6:28 AM / IP Logged  
I can't find any schematic. But as I wrote - batt1 (main battery) - fuse1 - isolator - fuse2 -batt2 with each fuse/breaker as close to its respective battery as possible. The fuses/breakers are to protect the interlink cable (and respective battery, and isolator if involved) if there is a short to ground along the interlink.
fosgate24360 
Copper - Posts: 104
Copper spacespace
Joined: September 19, 2010
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: August 20, 2013 at 9:21 AM / IP Logged  
ok sounds good and once again thanx
fosgate24360 
Copper - Posts: 104
Copper spacespace
Joined: September 19, 2010
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: August 20, 2013 at 11:59 PM / IP Logged  
hey man, just a quick note....ive been working on a fiberglass sub enclosure now and today i finally got it done for the two 12's.....anyways, i hope this doesnt sound rediculous but here goes. as a substitute box for the 12's i had a sealed that i bought yrs ago, the reason why i hated it was because it had a shared chamber for the 2 subs. is it possible the box type was for some god reason giving me issues with the lights? reason i ask is now after today when i finished all the wiring for the new box, i have very faint light dim. i did not readjust and settings on anything, they are where they were with the substitute box......anyways, just curious as i dont get it lol. may not need the 2nd battery now which im happy with....
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