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Viper 5806V, Dball2, 1999 Grand Cherokee


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nvdave 
Member - Posts: 10
Member spacespace
Joined: April 26, 2017
Location: Nevada, United States
Posted: April 26, 2017 at 3:29 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote nvdave
Hey guys,
I just found this site and after a few minutes of looking, I had to join. Seems like an incredible wealth of knowledge here. I worked as an installer from 1986 to 1990 or so. Since then I’ve been an electrician, so not up to speed on any newer technology, so please forgive my ignorance. I also don’t know proper posting etiquette, but this thread was so relevant, it seemed like the best place to ask my questions.
I am installing a Viper 5806V with a Dball2 into a 1999 Grand Cherokee. I also bought the XKLoader2 and plan on flashing the Dball2 with the current firmware.
I have the Dball Chrysler2 Installation Type 3 install sheet. My main area of confusion is how much the Dball actually takes care of thru the Jeep’s data system. On the Dball sheet, it shows the Dball connecting to the parking lights, but then it shows the park lights connected to remote starter as well?? Then there are these questions I have:
1. Neutral Safety Switch – do I have to connect this or does Dball handle?
2. Hood Pin Switch – Can I tap into engine convenience light or is this handled by Dball?
     Does 5806v need a ground trigger here?
3.Brake switch – same thing – Dball?, ground trigger?
Basically what exactly in addition to the Type 3 install sheet do I need to connect?
Thanks So Much,
Dave
kaezoo 
Copper - Posts: 125
Copper spacespace
Joined: April 26, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: April 26, 2017 at 5:38 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote kaezoo
The DBALL2 doesn't detect the hood switch or brake switch in your vehicle, so these connections will still need to be made between the remote starter and the vehicle. The neutral safety wire from the 5806V will need to be grounded as well.
The DBALL2 takes care of the parking lights through an analog connection, not via the data bus. Normally you'd use a relay with a specific resistor value to activate parking lights in this vehicle; the DBALL2 is just simplifying this connection by applying the correct voltage without the relay and resistor.
kreg357 
Platinum - Posts: 7,771
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: April 26, 2017 at 5:50 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote kreg357
For your Jeep G.C. take a look at Page 2 of the DB-ALL2 w/Chrysler2 Install guide. It has a chart has details the
supported functions using the Type 3 install diagram. The only thing to point out is the "D" marking in three of the
functions. It denotes that the particular function will only be handled by the DBI communication via the D2D harness
and can't be hardwired as an output signal from the DB-ALL2.
1. Neutral Safety Switch – do I have to connect this or does Dball handle?
   The DB-ALL2 does not supply the Emergency Brake signal that is typically used as the Neutral Safety Signal input.
   As such you must make this connection manually from the Viper. If your G.C. has an automatic transmission you can
   connect this wire to Chassis Ground.
2. Hood Pin Switch – Can I tap into engine convenience light or is this handled by Dball?
    Going by the DB-ALL2 function chart, it does not supply the Hood Pin signal. You must make this connection
    from the Viper to the Hood Pin. If your G.C. has an under hood light check to verify that it is a (-) signal. Most
    under hood lights are a single wire with a (+) signal and chassis ground supplied by the light mount. The Viper
    is looking for a (-) input signal.
     Does 5806v need a ground trigger here? Yes. If the under hood light is (+) and relay could be used to convert
        the signal or you could install the kit supplied hood pin ( or a mercury switch ).
3.Brake switch – same thing – Dball?, ground trigger?    The Viper is looking for a (+) Brake signal input and the
   DB-ALL2 does not supply this signal. This wire is found at the Brake pedal switch connector and is shown in this
   Pictorial on your Jeep :    https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=137527
Soldering is fun!
nvdave 
Member - Posts: 10
Member spacespace
Joined: April 26, 2017
Location: Nevada, United States
Posted: April 27, 2017 at 12:07 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote nvdave
kreg357 and kaezoo - AWESOME! Thanks! That pictorial is perfect, as well.
I should have also mentioned i'm doing D2D.
On the DBALL2 sheet, it also shows an "accessory" connection to remote starter - is this just a 12V switched or is this something to do with the accessory 2 connection in the Viper manual for climate control or what?
I'm assuming when I remote start, whatever climate control setting I had will stay active (without making any special connections).
I also see in the original post that H3/4 of Viper to ACC2 *Program Flex Relay to ACC (Is this the climate control) I don't know what a Flex Relay is.
Thanks Again
nvdave 
Member - Posts: 10
Member spacespace
Joined: April 26, 2017
Location: Nevada, United States
Posted: April 27, 2017 at 1:28 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote nvdave
After going thru everything again along with explanation of the remote start heavy gauge connector on the 5806V from this thread:
https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=136184
This is what I have come up with. Could you please review and correct as necessary?
H1/1 12V Constant – Red at ignition switch
    /2   CG - Chassis Ground
    /3   Siren – Siren
    
H3/2    fused 12v acc/starter input – Red at ignition switch?
H3/4   ACC2 – Black/Orange at ignition switch?
H3/5    fused 12v ign 1 input – Pink/Black at ignition switch?
H3/6   Starter Input – Yellow at ignition switch (key side)
H3/7   Starter Output – Yellow at ignition switch (starter side)
H3/8   Acc – Red/Black at ignition switch?
H3/9   to 12v+ - Pink/Black at ignition switch?
H3/10 Ign 1 Input/Output – Blue at ignition switch (also to DB-ALL2 Pink IGN Input)
H4/9   Hood Pin – Negative trigger from hood pin or engine compartment courtesy light?
H4/13 Neutral Safety – Chassis Ground (Jeep is Auto)
H4/20 Brake Shutdown – White/Tan at brake switch
Thanks again for all your help!
kreg357 
Platinum - Posts: 7,771
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: April 27, 2017 at 4:28 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote kreg357
The wiring looks good. The four Viper power wires should be split among the Jeeps two +12V power sources at the ignition
switch harness. You will have to test the under hood light wire to see what it can supply. If it is not the Viper required
(-) signal, install the hood pin switch supplied in the Viper kit.
Remote Start, 10-pin heavy gauge connector
1 NC No Connection
2 RED/BLACK (+) FUSED 12V ACC/STARTER INPUT      Pink/Black
3 PINK/BLACK (+) FLEX RELAY INPUT 87A       not used
4 PINK/WHITE (+) IGNITION 2 / FLEX RELAY OUTPUT Black/Orange   * Program Viper to ACC
5 RED (+) FUSED 12V IGNITION 1 INPUT              Red
6 GREEN (+) STARTER INPUT (KEY SIDE)           Yellow \
7 VIOLET (+) STARTER OUTPUT (CAR SIDE)      Yellow /    cut wire
8 ORANGE (+) ACCESSORY OUTPUT     Red/Black
9 RED/WHITE (+) FUSED 12V IGNITION 2            Pink/Black
10 PINK (+) IGNITION 1 INPUT/OUTPUTBlue
Soldering is fun!
nvdave 
Member - Posts: 10
Member spacespace
Joined: April 26, 2017
Location: Nevada, United States
Posted: April 27, 2017 at 6:16 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote nvdave
Thanks kreg357!
If I could bother you just a little more - On wire 4 Pink/White, what do you mean by program Viper to ACC and what is the Flex relay - what's going on here so I could understand?
On a follow-up - I tested engine compartment light and it must have a tilt or mercury switch in it. It has 2 wires going to it; I figured one might be switched by a pin switch, but nope - +12V constant and Ground (new pin switch already installed)
kreg357 
Platinum - Posts: 7,771
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: April 27, 2017 at 7:02 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote kreg357
The thick Pink/White wire at Pin 4 is known as the Flex Relay output. Like most current remote starter units your Viper has one Starter output, one Ignition output and one Accessory output. Each has a specific function to perform during a remote start up. Some cars have multiple ignition wires above the basic three that the Viper handles. In the case of your Jeep it has two Accessory type wires. Viper added a forth relay controlled ignition output wire and set it up to be flexible in the fact that you can manually program it to act like a Starter wire or an Accessory wire instead of the default programming of Ignition type output. Due to current requirements, it is inadvisable to connect one R/S ignition output to two vehicle wire plus doing so could damage the vehicle ( the engineers designed the vehicle with two separate Accessory circuits for a reason ).
Soldering is fun!
nvdave 
Member - Posts: 10
Member spacespace
Joined: April 26, 2017
Location: Nevada, United States
Posted: April 27, 2017 at 7:37 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote nvdave
Beautiful explanation - even an old school guy like me can understand :)
Thanks again kreg357 !!!
nvdave 
Member - Posts: 10
Member spacespace
Joined: April 26, 2017
Location: Nevada, United States
Posted: April 27, 2017 at 7:39 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote nvdave
Hey kreg357,
The 357 in your username isn't a local union, is it? Just asking because that's my local union.
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